I already stated before the patch that siege counter siege rock paper scissors was the best mechanism we can have with the existing siege units whether you like it or not. What we needed was not a huge rework to siege mechanisms, but minor nerf/buff to over/under-performing siege units. The current rework would eventually lead to 2 outcomes:
A. Sieges are op → ppl abuse them in toxic ways because there’s no hard counter to them
B. Sieges are bad or mediocre → many siege units would be rarely used. More games would last forever because you don’t have an effective game-ending unit
I like to see every unit being useful and useful in unique ways at best, which means don’t make springalds do the similar job as ranged unit and don’t make culverins do the same job as bombards. Archers and crossbows are supposed to anti-light and anti-heavy armors but not anti-siege!! You’re really killing the variety of this game
A strong siege army was the KEY to end games. Like now how do you effectively push English in the late game even if you had resource advantage? Your siege units get melted, their endless MAAs, white tower, Berkshire, network of castles are extremely hard to break without powerful siege support. Do you wish to slow down the game even more?
Problem is siege is like a game-ending weapon, the fourth winning condition in the game. The unit that counter siege shouldn’t be too effective against other units, otherwise mass-spamming this unit would have no counter. This was exactly the role of springald before the patch and it was doing its job to prevent siege from being abused. Ppl don’t realize this fact and suggested removing springald role. Now the previous equilibrium was completely broken and everything is chaotic.
Also keep in mind that this game has infinite resources. This is why we cannot remove siege or nerf them too much. We need them to end games! Many mechanisms in Aoe4 are developed based on the infinite resource idea, so it would also cause a series of problems if they suddenly make it finite. Like I said, the siege counter siege mechanism was the best we can have at present stage, unless new unit types are added to the game.
I really liked the change in siege weapons. You can use trebuchets if you want to outrange archers. You can also use ram to absorb some of the damage or force your opponent to micromanage more. Anyway, there are other possibilities. Before, if you lost the minigame with siege weapons, than gg. Now I think we have more possibilities and that’s good.
Furthermore, they are collecting data and will certainly make the necessary adjustments to further improve the experience.
“More possibilities” means you’re most likely going to have loooong games even if you or your opponent had significant eco advantage. Before, not being able to win the siege “mini game” means that your eco is probably behind or that you didn’t make the right decision to produce the correct units at some point in the game. The average game duration is already long enough in aoe4, and I mean siege war often begins in late castle or imp age, and thats already like after some 20 mins gameplay. At that point there should be a terminator which forces the game to an end. This terminator is the siege war we’re talking about.
Who are the “pros” you refer? Like there has been 80% negative reviews on Steam since the patch was live. Beasty explicitly said he opposes the springlad change yesterday. Dyukusi changed his ID into “WeMissOldSpringlad” and to “WorstPatchEver” today. I don’t know what makes you think this patch is fine, but it is definitely not fine to me
Do you have a timestamp when Siegyqt said this by any chance? I don’t usually watch his stream, he raises my cortisol levels. I didn’t hear this from Wam or Anotand, or any other pro.
I dont know what game you were playing but siege in season 8 didn’t for games to end? Also with the efficiency of th old springalds siege superiority was short lived.
Right now in castle if a guy has say 6 springalds and 3 mangonels and he just won the last engagement?? That guy if he keeps pushing is gonna ride that momentum for a while!!
Meanwhile back a season ago, the very next engagement could have completely reverse said momentum with some key springalds snipes.
Also in imperial cannons are the new anti siege since they have the longest straight shot range an thy are the tankies.
I will admit mangonels have been nerfed!! its not the worse but its noticeable, no question.
Watch his latest replay starting from 04:03:00 ish. I don’t want to go deeper into it cause I don’t have time and energy to argue. What I’m saying is many players including me don’t really like these changes. I hope they can find a way to sort things out.
Mali is gonna be an S tier civ!! Springalds now cover their weakness,. Issue with mali is they dont have range bonus vs heavy and the musofadi cant stay alive long enough to shred thru the heavy units. But now with springalds counter melee inf, mali can readily delete enemy heavy infantry frontline then contend with the enemy backline.