Siege Rework

After longer thinking I think the Game needs a Siege rework.
The Prob is, that the most utility Siege is also hard-counter-Siege. The Onager is, compared to the other types, both useful in offense as in defense but counters the Siege which is designated to be pure offensive and break bases, the ram. If we want to have a more action Gameplay, Onagers shouldn’t be able to take out rams that easily.
Whilst the Scorpion is somewhat ok balanced, it is more a ranged Support than a Siege weapon.

Additional to this, all Siege is quite hard to handle for lower skilled players. Both in usage as in countering it.

So my Suggestion is, to give the siege more clear roles and tweaking them around them.

  1. Onager: Versatile siege weapon, excels in killing ranged units. Big Area of effect, vulnerable to (fast) melee units
  2. Ram: Durable siege unit to break open bases. Also vulnerable against melee units
  3. Scorpion: Mostly ranged support against melee units. Vulnerable to all kind of damage, but excels in bigger scaled battles if protected well.

To Achieve this, I would adjust the Units as follows:

Onager: Affected by Ballistics, but higher minimum range, Bigger area of effect, but less base damage, a bit less vs buiildings (but higher in ratio to base dmg), quite high bonus vs Archers. No Extra Bonus vs Siege. The amount of friendly fire damage is halved to own melee units, to make it easier to use them for lower skilled players.

Ram: More hitpoints, but further reduced melee armor. Slightly increased anti-Building damage.

Scorpion: Affected by Ballistics, slighly increased Range and proj Speed. Reduced Pierce Armor. Bonus vs Cavalry to adress the higher HP / DPS ratio, pop efficiency and mobility of cav compared to other unit types, not to counter cav expicially. Minimum Range reduced to 1. Slightly increase the anti-building damage.

BBC and Trebs are fine as they are atm. BBC could be improved slightly in Mobility though, to give them higher offensive utility. Trebs could be more accurate and have a additional bonus vs SIege for the same reason, because the offensive player should be able to field more trebs. If Trebs counter enemy defensive siege better, it would be much easier to break open enemy bases with them because trebs, opposed to onagers, outrange the enemy defensive structures and therefore don’t benefit as much from their protection in Sieges.


Mangonel: 20 Damage, +30 vs Buildings, +12 vs archers, 2 blast radius, 4 minimum range, friendly fire halved (to own melee units), 7 pierce armor
Onager: 25 Damage, +35 vs Buildings, +15 vs archers, 2,25 blast radius, 4 minimum range, friendly fire halved (to own melee units), 8 pierce armor
Siege Onager: 30 Damage, +45 vs Buildings, +20 vs archers, 2,5 blast radius, 4 minimum range, friendly fire halved (to own melee units), 9 pierce armor

Battering Ram: 220 HP, -5 Melee Armor, +150 vs Building
Capped Ram: 250 HP, -5 Melee Armor, +200 vs Building
Siege Ram: 350 HP, -5 Melee Armor, +250 vs Building

Scorpion 90 W / 70G: 4 pierce Armor, 8 Range, + 8 dmg vs cavalry, + 4 dmg vs camel, +8 dmg vs elephants, + 6 dmg vs buildings, 1 minimum range, faster projectiles
Heavy Scorpion 90 W / 70G: 5 pierce Armor, 8 Range, + 10 dmg vs cavalry, + 5 dmg vs camel, +10 dmg vs elephants, + 9 dmg vs buildings, 1 minimum range, faster projectiles

All in all, this would give Siege clear roles were they excel and in general give them more offensive utilty and less defensive. The dominance of onagers in siege fights would be stopped, but they would even more excel as “archer killer”. With the higher blast radius and ballistics they are still dangerous to infantry, but no longer outpace scorps in this regard. But more important, this would enable ram pushes with less risk of being completely destroyed by defensive mangonel/onagers.

Just my two cents. I have no great hope this will be adjusted in he mentioned way, but I hope the devs see the problem of onagers/mangos as they are mainly used defensively - as a “siege” weapon - and make the use of rams to break bases almost impossible. Of course mango pushes are also there, but are often also countered by defensive mangos quite efficiently.

while i think the idea behind it is good, there’s just too much going on, nevermind whether it will actually work or be balanced, it will upset the community too much.

its one thing to make militia slightly better in the field they’re already supposed to be good at, its another thing to almost completely redesign siege

while i dislike the very high skill cap on siege usage, i dont see how we could adjust it without upsetting too many people

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