Slavs September buff suggestions

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
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Secret won in BoA2 finals with Teutons spamming knights/paladins without making a single siege unit

Name any siege civ that would do that

Where is your evidence that Teutons are a siege civ apart from “that is obvious” ? Slavs are a siege civ, they will make halbs+siege 100% of the time and have a clear bonus for Siege, Teutons don’t have access to Siege ram, and despite having a specific melee bonus for Siege they also have similar melee bonus for all their units. They are clearly not designed as siege civ, they are designed as “slow but powerful units” civilization, as explained by the recent +1/2 armor for their other units and their lack of husbandry. Maybe in specific circumstances they are played like a siege civ (pro 1v1, I guess ?) but so do many other civs that have access to siege rams or siege onagers. I’m also helping your argument by using pro level, but I’m pretty sure 90% players on ladder will go full paladins in team games. And if we’re speaking about pro level / 1v1 then this is completely out of context wrt the original discussion anyway, because the problem with boyars at pro level is NOT their stats but the fact that they come from castle. So I fail to see what argument your “obvious” facts would even serve.

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Slavs are a powerful and consistent civilisation, so I doubt they need buffing. I know Boyar in itself is a bit tricky, but it delivers a quite incredible punch and is now even harder to stop with archers.

If they needed a buff, I would however rather help the siege (for example pushing the discount to -20%).

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63

Ethiopians or Saracens

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Saracens are not a siege civ
Ethiopians are a versatile civ that is encouraged to use Siege

And even if they were, they play differently from one another, just like Teutons and Slavs are played differently

The point is: Slavs and Teutons are very different civs, the fact Teutons have access to heavy cavalry in Teutons context does not have the same effect as Slavs having access to heavy cavalry in Slavs context, and should not play a role in balancing any of both units

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Extra armor bonus on siege in my personal opinion is a siege civ specific buff as useful as the celt’s bonus. I don’t view siege ram being there or not as an indicator of suddenly it not being a siege civ. It’s hardly ever used.

Spamming a single unit goes for all player levels, if something is working why change it up unless it doesn’t anymore? your argument is currently invalid and leading into the territory of don’t argue with an idiot, they’ll drag you down to their level and beat you with nonsense

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I am aware that you’re trolling in case you have hope that I ever bait to one of your posts

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It’s also not a troll post. I legitimately believe personally that all the slavs need as a buff to their civ as a whole to be fully balanced is to perfect the quality of the boyar, even if it means increasing the price per unit.

A buff to the boyar is a buff to their monks.
By making each bit of healing worth more, all the time spent to heal them is that much more worth it.

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Sorry but at this point the chances that you’re a troll are too high for me to invest into making reasonable arguments

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69

  1. Farmers working faster is not my suggestion. I added it because I figure it might be useful but balanced is another matter. Also was attempting to add other users suggestions to the mainpost as long as I’m able.

  2. Focus of the comment was specifically on the boyar being the main draw of the civilization, and it being outclassed by the teutons which can heal their palladin more effectively with longer range being a large factor in being outclassed. Boyar needs to be number 1 between the two to give back the main draw to the civ and secondly the increase in defense increases the overall ability of the civ to heal their boyars at a pace that may run even or outclass the teuton’s ability to heal their own cavalry beyond making their boyar stronger in the first place only just slightly.

  3. Siege ram is hardly ever used. It’s used but not as often as siege onagers and scorpions which are far more useful. Why take the time to manage rams when you already have bombard canons which will take down those structures easily. People use siege rams when they don’t have a better option.

  4. Your problem with this comment shows how negligible your reasoning is towards monks.

  5. You’re just proving the point.

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In what game mode and against which types of opponents are you playing ?

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Now I’m also beginning to think you’re trolling

I see Siege ram a lot more often then SO or HScorpion. They’re cheap to upgrade in post-imp. They’re easy to manage (you can just direct them at some enemy buildings, no need to pay further attention, very different from, say, bombard cannons, which get sniped if you look away just a second). They have incredible destructive potential and the opponent can have trouble killing them even when they’re unprotected.

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72

Ranked regular and deathmatch usually
Maps tend to be arabia and black forest both with team games and 1vs1 -

My playstyle is a bit different from most.
I focus in quality over quantity.
My general strategy revolves around staying focused and knowing when to be offensive/defensive or when to retreat.

Unit composition tends to generally be focused on teutons but carries over into most other civs when used properly.

For example:

29 teutonic knights, 21 hand canoneers, 10 monks, square formation stand ground

Or

21 teutonic knights, 10 hand canoneers, 10 monks square formation stand ground

Or

29 teutonic knights, 21 monks, 10 hand canoneers, square formation, stand ground.

Or 10 monks and just enough teutonic knights to surround them firmly. (Will edit later with the proper number when I have access to a comp)

These formations are the centerstone to my army. The other parts to it revolve around enemy composition but tends to lean towards a base of 20 teutonic knights+20 crossbows/handcanoneers, 20 palladins+20 cavalry archers,
8 siege onagers,
9 bombard cannons,
A single castle and up to 4 keeps filled to the brim with however many hand canoneers needed for defensive play,
And sometimes up to 20+ scorpions if I’m feeling like it.

Playing this way is like learning the boardgame ‘go’ easy to learn, hard to master, you must flow like water and be visulant. My focus tends to be 95% of the time on the army. Once it is created, eco is negligible.

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You are right, and the rams do have their usage,
But my personal opinion of them is lower than some. I’m a teuton main, my opinion of the boyars specifically is from being an ally to them for the most part and thinking is it worth it to heal them or just field more teuton players. I would rather heal more boyars thinking that they are more quality. I would love to heal cataphracts but they die too fast to grazing arrow fire to consider their healing bonus really worth it unless we’re talking about healing war ellies.
+1 pierce armor for the cataphracts would change my opinion.

That being said my current favorite team composition is Teutons, Italians, Portugeuse, Goths. -

Teutons for their core army

Italians for anti ellies, cavalry and gunpowder units, that last part being given to the whole team aside from the ports,

Portugeuse for their 10 feitoria rush +19 pop into
Unlimited walls and bombard towers + consistent repairs to ally siege and buildings

Goths for anti archerfire and a consistent push into enemy territory for anti building and some good raiding.
Tho I treat their huskarl the same as I do the teutonic knight, as a quality unit not meant to be wasted and to be healed often and used against units it’s strong against, letting allies take care of the weaknesses.

Farm setup tends to be a single castle+4 towers if needed, surrounded closely by 4 town centers, one on each corner tip, north east south west,

Surrounded by farms and a second castle between that formation and any extra town centers if needed for more farming for antiraiding potential.

I would personally love this to be my usual team composition:

Teutons, Slavs, Byzantines, Goths

Instead of just teutons, teutons, teutons, goths

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Interesting strats. What kind of ELO can you achieve with these?

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Personally? Depends on how focused I am, and enemy skill level. I’ve yet to really see the limit to how far it can go, there’s bound to be someone out there better than me at this. my ability to multitask is questionable so I’m leaning up the the 1200 range because that’s my skill level generally, the strategy itself could see use with the pros theoretically and then we’d see how far it can go.

I’m still improving on a personal level with it

Teamgames on the other hand, I have very little doubt that it’s S tier quality when used and coordinated properly.

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Your playstyle is nowhere near how medium/high ranked players play this game. I think you would agree, otherwise please look at AoE2 on twitch or Youtube and just click on any guy that plays ranked. If you try to amass a large army of UUs and heal your units after every fight then your goal is not truly to win but to make nice battles, or whatever. And that’s TOTALLY FINE. However when you make a suggestion then also think of the possible abuses in competitive settings where both players are of similar level and actually try to win. When you suggest +20% farming, it will make no difference at low elo, because at low elo such civ differences / unit differences don’t have as much of an impact as the mistakes players make. However at high Elo it will lead to EVERYONE PLAYING SLAVS 100% OF THE TIME. I’m not saying you are low Elo, that I am high Elo, or that you shouldn’t make suggestions to improve your specific playstyle, but that if you make suggestions, again, think of the impact in competitive environment mentioned above. At high level siege rams are a very good unit so if you don’t take that into account you cannot suggest balance changes because you will most likely break the game for high level players.

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+20% farming, again, not my suggestion.
I just put it up there, as I will as long as I can for any other suggeston as long as I can edit the first post for topic of discussion within a certain amount of reason

My two personal suggestions were +1 melee armor, +20 hp specifically

+1 melee armor is all the unit would need, preferrably.

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While I agree with you that this isn’t how the pro scene looks rn, I have a firm belief that the style of play for many players, including the pros, changes over time, this is my current style of play that I’ve been developing since 2013ish, I want to perfect it to a point, but I also want someone who’s better to find a place for it on the pro scene to make its debut. I’m a defensive player at heart, so my offensive is lacking, I want someone who is the middleground to make use of this properly and use the defense as a firm opening for a stronger offense and make it shine brilliantly in multiplayer as well as in 1 vs 1

79

So there is no siege civ ? Thanks for your contribution, what else is the civ with the only complete SW and even a Siege UT and the civ that only lacks FU Scorpion…

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80

I think he means not siege civ focused

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