Slight tweaks to balance civs across game time

  1. Incas:
    a. Stone discount nerfed to 12%. Nerfs their tower rushes slightly. Incas can still build 1 tower + 1 TC with starting stone. 12% chosen since unit costs are usually a multtiple of 5 (25 for stone structures).
    b. Team bonus - all foot archer and cavalry archer units have 0 minimum range, except Feudal Age skirmisher. The units being affected are - Slingers, Genitours, Elite Genitours, Elite Skirmishers, Imperial Skirmishers and hero units.

a. Set minimum range for class archer to 0.
b. Set minimum range for class cavalry archer to 0.
c. Set minimum range for unit Skirmisher to 1.

Since c is written after a, the minimum range of skirmisher will be overrided to 1 again (tested).

c. Castle Age UT: Eagle units cost -5G +5F. This is because Imperial Age composition of Incas is quite gold heavy. This isn’t a tech one would jump to grab, but certainly one will plan for.

  1. Indians:
    a. Shatagni affects Bombard Cannons also.
    This may seem like the 3rd overlap of Indians and Turks but this is something Indians need for sure.
    Indians have Capped Ram with SE, which is worse than Siege Rams without SE.
    Indians have SE for Trebs. Turks have Artillery for Bombard Cannons.
    Turks have fully upgradeable Champions and Cavaliers which can be used to tear down buildings.
    Turks even have extra pierce armor on Hussars which can be used in a pinch.
    The Indians have really no good options when it comes to destroying buildings other than generic Trebs and Bombard Cannons. Civilizations having equal or worse tech trees are specialist cavalry or elephant civilizations, like Lithuanians.

  2. Vikings:
    a. Wheelbarrow and Hand Cart cost -66% in resources and time. Nerfed from -100%.
    This makes Wheelbarrow cost 50F 25W 25 seconds and Hand Cart cost 100F 67W 18 seconds. This nerfs their mid game but it doesn’t totally kill them.
    b. (this might be weird) Berserkergang in addition to faster healing affect unlocks the Eagle Warrior (not the Elite one). This lights up the late game since their stable is disgusting. The Eagle Warrior unlocked has +20% HP and +5 attack vs cavalry. This bonus helps show that the Vikings settled in the new world (America) which lacked horses. The Eagle Warrior isn’t as ridiculous as the Elite Eagle Warrior because the latter is created 75% faster, has +1p armor and +2 attack.

  3. Unit changes:

a. Man-at-Arms: +1 attack (this unit is uncommon in Feudal Age, except when Militia were created in DA and later upgraded). This hasn’t to be an automatic +1. Maybe this +1 can be locked behind a requirement.

b. Long Swordsmen: +1 attack (the reason is definitely out that the unit is the least common unit in Castle Age). LS -1 attack vs Eagle Warrior and buildings both to balance their strengths.

c. Infantry unique units similar to Long Swordsmen: +1 attack to Samurai, Berserk, Woad Raider, etc and other similar infantry units. Jaguar Warrior +5 HP (since it already has 10 attack).

d. Steppe Lancers: cost -10 gold, -1 attack (both forms) making the unit more viable and toning the attack to match its light cavalry status. Similar to Elite Huszars.

e. Elite Jaguar Warrior (minor): +1 attack vs Infantry units.

f. Elite Battle Elephants: +1 melee attack.
Tusks swords costs -33% (same as previous); gives +2 attack. 0 change to Khmer Elephants.

Units like Hand Cannoneers and Cavalry Archers also need buffs but not sure how to buff them exactly.

literally one of the most common openers in the game. uncommon.

and giving it 1 attack isn’t going to change it not seeing much use.

why? the JW is already great against infantry, it doesn’t need to be better against them.

I didn’t say opening. I meant sustained production. The extra attack be locked behind a requirement to not interfere with 3 or 4 man-at-arms opening. Read the whole point.

well considering the role of the militia line, giving it extra attack isn’t really going to suddenly make it a go to unit to be made. the militia lines main point of strength is against trash and eagles. m@a would still get wrecked by archers, and LS would still lose to knights and xbows.

and what requirement would it be locked behind?

furthermore i don’t see giving 1 attack to the M@A or LS doing much as they still get wrecked by knights and archers.

And if your goal is sustained militia line production, then it would need a plethora of changes to make it compete with knights and archers, and it would need even more changes to balance it (like giving it a trash counter, which it currently doesn’t have).

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Unlike other changes to LS and beyond like extra pierce armor or movement speed, my change really has no effect on counters. You can annoy them with skirmishers which move faster, or kite them with archers.

Knights are great in today’s meta since they counter archers and move fast. The LS is supposed to do the opposite of that. So we really don’t need to think there. It has to counter cavalry and kill villagers, both of which are achieved slightly with the change for both M@A and LS. With Supplies, you can outproduce Knights becuase of faster creation, cheaper cost and ability to be preloaded (Knights cannot be built before castle Age is researched).

But it also gives you no real reason to “sustain production” like you stated the goal was to do.

if this is your goal, giving them a +1 attack is not going to do anything on that front.

no, it really doesn’t have to counter cavalry. that’s not it’s intended goal at all. and if that was the goal, the game would need lots of changes. for example what would a civ without good archers do against an infantry civilization.

you can do that as is now, and people still don’t use them. japanese longswords with their 33% faster attack aren’t used against knights despite the fact that they trade cost effectively.

Incas are quite balanced currently but this civ exist only for 1 thing : noboru trush and that’s pretty sad other form of play with should be better (aztecs and mayans do better expect for trushing)

I like it and clearly better than farm construction bonus.

definitely not a good idea imo. Incas’ late game are good.

mm why not ? but i would prefer some other thing on hc like accurary idk.

for wheelbarrow etc i have seen a good idea which is doing the same as goths currently : insta research but cost as usual or maybe the contrary cost nothing but still researched in normal times. as for eagle warriors , vikings do not need at all that and that’s weird, actually wheelbarrow / hand cart make vikings cavs for castle age quitte good if archers are not an option.
4. Unit changes:

definitely no we see a lot m@a, that’s just not a unit which is designed for late feudal age and +1 attack wouldn’t change anything as archers are so good against plus they have no mobility and high cost.

idk how to make this unit more viable ? i don’t think it’s is enough maybe just supplies lest expensive can be enough?

Agree except for elite woad raider / Elite berserk which i found already good enough but it can be ok

if -1 attack i think you can reduce food cost as well but it can be enough.

agree maybe more like +3 since this units is so useless except to create a few (cause need less upgrades than champion) to stop eagle raiding but champion + 8 do a lot better and do not require castle so why go for jaguars ?

Why not ?

I don’t think hc need buff or maybe a minor one. as for ca perfectly agree they are so unplayable currently thanks to their frame delay which is the same as before but whith DE’ no-lag xbow are a lot easier to use and CA become useless in both direct fight against xbow and hit and run against kts. Imp therefore they are ok.

No, only the Castle Age variant, which is equivalent to Long Sowrdsmen. Buffing one has to be accompanied by buffing the latter.

So i am perfectly agree with that :slight_smile:

Yeah, that too was my idea.

But the Viking bonus is mainly saving research time on Wheelbarrow and resources on Hand Cart. We need a bonus which affects them equally so this bonus.

Although there will be no problem with Wheelbarrow being researched instantly and Handcart being free but taking time to research.