I am pretty sure every pro agrees Chinese is among the top 5 civilizations (if not top 3, or the best) and they need a nerf.
I suggest Chinese can’t research Architecture anymore.
Why is this change good? Of course Chinese will still be broken regardless, I know they need other nerfs. But while the civilization is by far superior throughout most of the game, at late game they lack some important upgrades (such as perhaps more notably, Hussar, BBC, SE) which makes their power more balanced, or even weaker, compared to other civilizations at this stage. Architecture becomes specially important in treb fights, where castles’ HP is key, and this is a situation in which you could softly weaken Chinese (remember they already lack hoardings).
With this change Chinese will still be played the same, but opens the door for weaknesses in their late game (where they already aren’t the strongest) to be exploited. Further changes are still needed though, since the civilization is still too strong.
Only thing this achieves is making great wall even more of a bad UT 1111 I’m not even sure people use the Chinese bonus to get architecture for treb fights. They are probs taking masonry then whatever their army needs first.
Im sorry but an architecture nerf does very little to actually nerf them. The tech is rarely taken to begin with.
-1 vil + 50f
tweak the numbers. this is the simplest option. but for diversity sake if they really tried there could be an alternative
like +50 f, keep the 6 vils. so they keep their identity but the majority of the community wont struggle so much with the start. but give them some other nerf like all buildings are built 10% slower, which will obviously be much harder to balance. but going by how other civs have been so boringly balanced. itll likely be the -1 vil, food thing
Why give a civ downside to the Chinese when they are one of the rare civ who already has a civ downside?
What downside does it have tbh?
For the topic, I would suggest the Vikings treatment actually - for economic civs nerfing their late game can be effective.
- Lose access to heavy camel and thumbring
Why would an archer civ with an archer UU lose thumb ring tho?
To nerf their lategame - force them to end game earlier. I think the UU with UT is strong enough without thumbring.
Otherwise, I suggest -heavycamel, -champion and -siegeram.
(Basically, imo a strong economic civ should not have strong late game options)
I guess something like no siege rams but siege engineers (so that their heavy scorpions get used) would be a good idea.
Or generally buff heavy scrops, it’s so underused anyway 11
This is almost never researched at high level 1v1 on most of the maps and will have negligible impact on non-DM games. Chinese power comes from the impact of having 2 villager lead and cheaper technologies and having a full tech tree.
Ideally something like Technologies cost -10% starting from feudal age or removing blast furnace should be a more appropriate nerf.
I like these very much. I think they still follow the same idea: Making chinese late game weaker (pretty much like Vikings).
The only one I’m not sure about is the champion upgrade. They already lack supplies so I’m afraid they would suffer to much against eagles or huskarls.
Rather than nerfing via removing units, better nerf the cheaper techs bonus and Chu Ko Nu.
Chinese also got a good nerf with the team bonus reduced in the early game but being better for the late game.
Actually fully upgraded UU has 8+6 attack, which shred eagles and huskarls (not as effective as champions of course)
I know Elite Chu Ko Nu shred eagles and huskarls (and most units actually). The thing is it is quite harder to tech into and mass than champs.
I think this is a bad idea because it greatly improves their onagers (and powered-up skorpions). If chinese get Onagers with siege engineers, they will be better against onagers, which is one of their main counter. If Chinese get siege engineers, I would consider remove the onagers (to be like turcs and huns).
For other options:
- the -1 villager / +50f is a good idea to slightly nerf the high level whille buffing the pro level (since chinese would make a villager from the get go, they would still have the strong economy, so the -50w stays necessary)
- removing heavy camels / champions / siege rams sound fine to me
- I would rather have them keep thumb rings as an archer civ. The only “archer civs” where I feel it would be fair are (british), ethiopians, mayans
- architecture: why not, but like most people I am not convinced it would change anything
- technologies -10% instead of -10%/-15%/-20% sound fine
- removing blast furnace: not fan of that change, would avoid
- nerfing chukonus sound fine
Tbh I think removing one blacksmith tech wouldn’t be as bad as removing 3 whole unit upgrades because it nerfs the civ while harming the versatility theme less.