Fuck, you’re right. My apologies, but I don’t feel “duplicated” since I’ve only suggested 1 split (Celts) vs. 3 regional DLCs (meso, scandinavia and… I don’t remember).
I don’t think that’s a problem. Everyone has their own take, which generates its own separate discussion.
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The Three Kingdom Civs should be all reworked
Except the Jurchen, they are good
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Fair, I suppose. Maybe I’ll work up enough courage to post some Ideas I’ve had recently…
(Can’t really speak on Jurchens, I don’t have the dlc; But)
Hear, Hear!
I love to play as Jurchen. Grenadiers are funny when you pack some in a ram.
really not a fan of the iron pagoda, but yes overall Jurchens are pretty good.
Khitanguts…I loathe the Khitanguts for their frankensteininess and definitely need to be fixed. Beyond that however, i’m not sure how I feel about their design, historical inspirations aside.
However Khitans are a particularly interesting civ amongst the 3K civs IMO.
What’s also really strange about the Khitans is while they are a frankenstein…they almost also seem like an shoddy split.
I can’t recall the topic or the user, but recently I saw a comment where they argued the 3K dlc started off as a traditional dlc, and then got morphed nearly beyond recognition.
The DLC folder structure and unused assets heavily implies this was two combined DLCs, but it did get me thinking.
There are also the Xianwei. Really not sure why we have a 3K civ, that’s pulling stuff from the Tuoba Wei, an ethnically, culturally, politically unrelated state from a few hundred years later.
Why are we adding xianbei stuff to the wei? They were a nomadic tribal confederacy, and while these confederacies are never ethnically homogenous, they were surely a mix of altaic peoples. Turks and Mongols could be reasonable Civs to represent Xianbei, but they also have plenty of historical material to work with. Jurchens less so, and they also have a second Jurchen state at the very very end of the aoe2 timeline to take some inspiration from as well. So of the best fitting civs, the one I think that’d have the most to gain by umbrella’ing the xianbei are the khitans…
wait a minute why do we have half a khitan civ over here in the khitanguts…and another half of a khitan civ over there in the xianwei??? Why not…I dont know…have just one khitan civ…full of just khitan stuff? What possible advantage is there for this?
Then I got to thinking about the Pastures. Sure any steppe people would be pastoral, but are the khitans really more deserving than the mongols or Turks? If I had to think of a singularly deserving civ, if we were only to give pastures to one civ and one civ only, that’d be the tibetans.
Now wouldn’t you know it, by golly gee whiz, the tanguts were related to tibetans. Before we had the full list of civs, I did theorize that the Tangut Castle and Camel Catapult we saw might actually be part of an umbrella civ that’d also contain Tibetans, Qiang perhaps, so MS could try sidestepping the Tibetans.
Seems to me that, while 3K was absolutely two DLCs combined, I’m no longer convinced the Medieval China DLC was only planned to contain Jurchens and Khitans. Seems like there was at least one more civ planned. but six (or more) civs would be wild for a DLC, especially since the average # of civs per DLC in the DE era was two. So instead the scope was pared down to five to at least match the largest past DLCs, but instead of just scrapping those elements, they just started shoving things wherever they’d fit to get a product done faster.
It really looks like Khitans were split to finish off the wei and just smushed together with Tibetan/Tangut stuff to approximate a complete civ.
Which really just irks me even more.
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Yes, but they would be small reworks. I was thinking of a big rework like the Indians/Hindustanis one that changed UUs and even the name of the civilization…
Yes, perhaps we should change 3K to Chronicles and tweak the Khitans a bit, and that’s it…
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I want a rework of the rest of the civilizations from The Forgotten, such as the Slavs, Magyars, and Italians. Similar to what they did with the Indians and the Incas.
I don’t know, but I think in both cases the worst that would happen is that the threads would get merged. Also I think I’ve only seen that in cases where two similar threads were made around the same time, not threads that were made years apart. (For example, the Old Prussians guy made a new thread for an updated version and it didn’t get merged or closed.)
I’m not making a judgement about whether your threads count as duplicates, just pointing out the relevant rule if you make lots of very similar threads.
The Chinese rework was easily as big as the Indians/Hindustanis rework in my opinion:
- Hindustanis: one new unique unit, minus one old unique unit, one new regional unit, some changes to their bonuses, and a new name.
- Chinese: one new unique unit, three new regional units, and some changes to their bonuses and unique techs.
Hindustanis looks superficially more significant because it did two things that had never been done before (or since). But to me, the Chinese one is just as extensive.
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I agree with this,
Heavily disagree with this. Khitans need to be redone, the current civ is just Tanguts with a steppe twist. Both civs I think deserve a redo, one that’s fairer than the Frankenstein they became.
I think a Balkans dlc fixes them; finally axing the umbrella and properly renaming them to the Rus.
Magyars are fine, imo. Slovaks could be covered by Bohemians due to their shared Moravian ties, Avars are covered by the Huns, and Transylvanians are technically covered by the Slavs until we get Romanians/Vlachs.
The only thing I see to split here is Venice.
Rework Khitans into Tanguts and Wei into Khitans?
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And the Chichimecs and Tarascans added.
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Chichimeca appreciation, very nice
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Honestly? It’s not a bad idea. The Khitans did rule the area of Wei, and actually having the civ be a civ is always a plus to me.
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Yes, you two are right…
Yes, the issue is that it would make it impossible to play Wei in Chronicles if they were to move Wu and Shu there, without Wei…
MS need to split Khitan and Tanguts for free for all TTK owners, plus moving 3K to Chronicles. Maybe giving pastures as well.
Maybe Tibetans could be added in a Himalayan focused DLC.
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No splits.
Rename the Slavs to Ruthenians.
The Romans need to be reworked to include elements from the Papal States.
The Wei reworked to become the Khitans.
The Khitans reworked to become the Tanguts.
The Shu reworked to become the Tibetans.
The Wu reworked to become the Tai.
Or move the 3 Kingdoms to Chronicles.
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Yes, the Roman legionary and centurion could be the papal guard and lancer…
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Or Rus and add Romanians as a civi to fix dracula campaign and proper campaigns for slavs/rus magyars turks.
Dravidians should also be renamed to tamil and add kannadiga and telengu peoples.
Other than that North america and south africa could use few civis,thats about it for me.
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What I mean is to move 3K to Chronicles as they are (don’t even bother to make them more historical, medieval civ takes priority) and give us new ranked civs in their place.
When the Chronicles team is bored with Graeco-Roman stuff they could try to fix 3K civs and campaigns (if they are interested in doing that). Add other ancient China civs like Qin and Chu (the latter would be useful even in the existing 3K campaigns given that a couple of the scenarios feature Chu territories and not a single one the Shu ones…), Xiongnu, Nanman, etc. The campaigns need to be done almost from scratch to present a coherent narrative from the Yellow Turbans onto the Jin reunification, without blatant ahistory. Good scenarios like Liu Bei 4 can be reused mostly without changes (after civ adjustment, he’s in service of Liu Biao of Chu at this moment so the civ of the scenario should be Chu).
Earlier mega-campaigns about the Warring States period, Qin’s unification of China, Chu-Han Contention, Xiongnu invasions and Han Wudi’s conquests would also be dope. All in the Chronicles ofc.