So... which civs should be reworked, splitted and/or renamed?

[WhiteMagick4]

I never thought of a Slav split resulting to the Romanians and the Ruthenians because the Romanians are a different ethnic group.

[MatM1996]

@smiki5five

What I mean is to move 3K to Chronicles as they are (don’t even bother to make them more historical, medieval civ takes priority) and give us new ranked civs in their place.

When the Chronicles team is bored with Graeco-Roman stuff they could try to fix 3K civs and campaigns (if they are interested in doing that). Add other ancient China civs like Qin and Chu (the latter would be useful even in the existing 3K campaigns given that a couple of the scenarios feature Chu territories and not a single one the Shu ones…), Xiongnu, Nanman, etc. The campaigns need to be done almost from scratch to present a coherent narrative from the Yellow Turbans onto the Jin reunification, without blatant ahistory. Good scenarios like Liu Bei 4 can be reused mostly without changes (after civ adjustment, he’s in service of Liu Biao of Chu at this moment so the civ of the scenario should be Chu).

Earlier mega-campaigns about the Warring States period, Qin’s unification of China, Chu-Han Contention, Xiongnu invasions and Han Wudi’s conquests would also be dope. All in the Chronicles ofc.

Yes, they could fix that if they decide to include Chinese DLCs in Chronicles… they could alternate between Roman and Chinese DLCs in Chronicles between 509 BC and 383 AD and let the base game rest in the meantime…

[WindwardHail620]

@WhiteMagick4

The Wu reworked to become the Tai.

If the three 3 kingdom “civs” are out of the main game I was thinking that the War chariot gimmick can be reused as an elephant unit for the Champa.

Chinese crossbows where introduced in Champa in 1171 and they used them on top of war elephants.

[Mahazona]

Yes romanians are not slavs but the campaign is wrong for slavs,plus romanians are the only civi that dosent upset all the balkan national mentality.

[JuryMusic777863]

I wish i could have Caquetio/Arawak. But we have Muisca so im glad. And on the scale of big unes of the Mesos the Chichimeca, Tarascans and Tlaxcalans are really missing in my opinion. They can add those and some northern North Americans than we have an americas banquete

[GoldenArmorX]

Teutons —> HRE (or even Germans) + Teutons

[KHANATTILA]

@WhiteMagick4

The Romans need to be reworked to include elements from the Papal States.

For some unknown reason, given that we are talking about different periods, but okay.

@WhiteMagick4

Or move the 3 Kingdoms to Chronicles.

I think this is the solution most people want.

[smiki5five]

@GoldenArmorX

Teutons —> HRE (or even Germans) + Teutons

Whom would Teutons represent if HRE is represented by another civ? Crusading orders are not civilisations.

A more sensible split would be to add Saxons (even though Goths already are very Saxon-like in gameplay and have a Huskarl) and another civ for Upper Germans like the Swiss and Austrians. So Teutons are left representing central Germans and the Teutonic Order. (And give each of them a proper castle, the current “Teutonic” castle can go to Normans as it’s based on an Anglo-Norman castle in Britain)

[KHANATTILA]

I don’t know how this idea that the HRE was a homogeneous and unified entity became so widespread.
We can simply say that the Teutons represent the Germanic part of the empire (+ the various states of the Teutonic Order further on).

[JuryMusic777863]

I second this, i would love to see a german split. With Teutons, Saxons (to also represent germanic netherlands which is the center and east part everything except holland they are burgundians), Bavaria for the south.
Because there is already Burgundians, Bohemians and Italians. What we miss is representation for the Bavaria/Swabia area, and the Lorraine/Franconia/Saxony area. Hence my suggestion. Yes i know Swabia and Bavaria are culturally different things. And also for Lorraine/Franconia/Saxony i know they are different things.
But atleast they’re a bit more similar. I’d still want to see the north to south difference.
Then a Bavaria civ could also represent Swiss, to have a unique pikeman/halbedier.

And then also add danish, swedish and norse. And keep Vikings for the minor northern factions like Frisians, Jomsborg, Baltic vikings, Iceland, Greenland, Vinland (usa should be a Norse or Icelandic territory).

[JuryMusic777863]

The Teutons were more than crusaders. They were an order and were also ruling cities and towns throughout Germany, Netherlands and Belgium. And they ruled over their colonies in PolandLithuania, Prussia and Latvia.

[smiki5five]

@JuryMusic777863

The Teutons were more than crusaders. They were an order and were also ruling cities and towns throughout Germany, Netherlands and Belgium. And they ruled over their colonies in PolandLithuania, Prussia and Latvia.

I’m aware, we were fighting them for centuries. They are still an order belonging to the German civilization however.

@JuryMusic777863

And then also add danish, swedish and norse. And keep Vikings for the minor northern factions like Frisians, Jomsborg, Baltic vikings, Iceland, Greenland, Vinland (usa should be a Norse or Icelandic territory).

Frisians are closer to Saxons than to Vikings. Iceland, Greenland, Vinland etc. were all settled primarily by Norwegian settlers, having two separate civs called Norse and Vikings doesn’t make much sense. If Danes and Swedes are added, Vikings can simply be renamed into Norse. (Though personally I’d rather see Finns instead of Swedes.)

[JuryMusic777863]

@smiki5five

I’m aware, we were fighting them for centuries. They are still an order belonging to the German civilization however.

And here in my city the order still stands and has a tiny part of their castle, oops.

@smiki5five

Frisians are closer to Saxons than to Vikings

They also had a viking age in the early medieval times before we got conquered by the Danish.

@smiki5five

Iceland, Greenland, Vinland etc. were all settled primarily by Norwegian settlers, having two separate civs called Norse and Vikings doesn’t make much sense.

Aha i didn’t know that, thank you very much.

@smiki5five

If Danes and Swedes are added, Vikings can simply be renamed into Norse

Then i agree. And then Norse or Danes can also represent the local tribes like Frisians, Joms and Baltic vikings.

[Blast9867]

@MatM1996

Yes, perhaps we should change 3K to Chronicles and tweak the Khitans a bit, and that’s it…

Yeah I agree. 3K needs to be moved to the Chronicles game mode because they don’t fit the timeframe of AoE2.

[MatM1996]

@smiki5five

A more sensible split would be to add Saxons (even though Goths already are very Saxon-like in gameplay and have a Huskarl) and another civ for Upper Germans like the Swiss and Austrians. So Teutons are left representing central Germans and the Teutonic Order. (And give each of them a proper castle, the current “Teutonic” castle can go to Normans as it’s based on an Anglo-Norman castle in Britain)

Yes, at least add the Austrians and Swiss to the Teutons…