Some Further Suggestions To Creating A New Meta

these suggestions are made in context of this post: Making A New Aoe3 Meta - Age of Empires III: DE / III - Discussion - Age of Empires Forum

Logistician now has a larger focus on dogs and explorers rather than resources to highlight this aspect of the civilization.

lancers moved to age 2 and replaces hussars and now only have a 2x infantry bonus, increased back to 3x upon reaching veteran status.

Bank hp reduced to 2.5k hp.
Explorer can train envoys.

new units:
the bashibazouk, a tanky light infantry unit, bonus vs other light infantry and light cavalry. available in age 2, 100 food 20 gold.

Swordsman, a tanky melee infantry, bonus vs cavalry and heavy infantry. 120 food, 5.5 move speed, available age 2.

jans and abus moved to age 3.

Wagon buildings no longer grant xp, wagon xp bounty buff reverted. wagon standardized to 4x build speed.

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I agree with dutch bank hp getting lowered, nice way to nerf them ever so slightly but everything else is fine as it is imo.


This is a good idea, one idea could be increasing limit to 10 and making dogs 60 food instead of 75

That would be cool and would change the way spain is played, I imagine with this buff lancer rod rush would be very strong, but without logistician crates it would also be very all in, so overall seems fair

That would be a bad idea because a bank is 700 resources and would be the hp of a barracks, this would only work with a cost decrease.

Wouldn’t change much but a nice idea

Usa has proven that age 2 light inf that’s tanky ends up being very OP, unless they made it have very little attack this would also be OP

This would be a good unit addition since ottoman have no hand inf witch is kinda weird

Ottomans would not be viable age 2 with this change, but it actually would be a buff to ff since that means you don’t have to get veteran upgrades.

That’s a good idea since it would be a small nerf for Portuguese and a small nerf for the usa

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some larger changes to the bank system would be nice, such as removing their card requirements, making the build limit 1 per age, and giving them 4 25% gold generation upgrades that are researched.

as they are currently 4k hp is still too much, lowering them to 3k would make them a more appealing target.

if they don’t compete with villager production envoy play would be more popular, reducing their cost if they still don’t see play would also be something to explore.

doesn’t have to be similar to U.S. militia, there is no premium tanky skirmisher unit currently though and a lot of higher damage lower hp variants. if the only worry is balance then number tuning can take care of it. having a melee infantry/light infantry combo rather than jan/abus would greatly increase the micro needed in age 2, which for the ottomans is a huge gameplay improvement. if they are too weak then they can always be buffed.

This change would make Ottos and Spain take more advantage of Dutch and get shipments even faster because they get too much XP when destroying a bank.

Well dutch already get a ton of xp from building it, and currently 4k hp is too much, it’s so hard to siege any banks with CM tc fire and units firing at you, you just can’t stand there for so long taking fire.
Idling them has practically no effect either because with 4 banks constantly gathering they just trade at the market to get their cm batches or make units while all vills are completely idle.

some thoughts on expanding the new otto units and moving jans/abus to age 3 and greatly increasing the micro potential and unit diversity of the civ.


120 food 5.5 move speed 250 hp 20% melee defense, 16 attack * 2 vs cavalry and heavy infantry. essentially a weaker cheaper version of the jaguar prowler knight, good against cavalry and heavy infantry. age 2 shipments are infinite 5 for 100 food, or 1 per 3 villagers.

baishbazouk infantry:

100 food 20 gold 4 move speed 180 hp 20% ranged resistance, 10 attack x2 vs light infantry and light cavalry, x.5 vs heavy cavalry, 20 range. a unique twist on light infantry, this one focuses on countering other light infantry and light cavalry, while being ineffective vs heavy infantry and cavalry. advanced arsenal increases damage vs light infantry and light cavalry, age 2 shipment is 5.

new cards for otto: 1 jan per 4 vills in age 3, 1 spahi per 5 vills age 4.

Bank= 700 res

Barracks= 250 res

3 barracks= 750 res

Hp of one bank= 4k
Hp of three barracks= 7k

Since it’s about the same amount of res spent it’d also about the same amount of xp

The argument of banks being strong because of hp and xp makes zero sense.

The only nerf that could be done to Dutch that wouldn’t make them a weak civ would be decreasing the bank collection rate by 10%, and making it naturally gain that 10% back in age 4, and even then, Dutch are no where near as good as top tier civs like japan, Spain, or British.

Cm tc fire in general is incredibly strong

This is a good idea actually because it keeps the unit from being different from the abus gun

I feel like the 1 Spahi for 5 villagers will be incredibly strong, in most games that hit age 4 without being because of an FI, otto should have at least 50 villagers, and 10 spahi would be very strong, also in the late game with 100 villagers that’s a 20 spahi shipment

its about making them more susceptible to early harass and damage. if they are too weak they can be buffed elsewhere, preferably in an area that increases aggression, such as a 5 skirm or 3 grenadier shipment

numbers could be too high or low. important thing is the design, which is powerful unit shipments as a reward for investment in the mosque upgrade system and unappealing for ff/fi strats.

I think per 8 or per 9 would be fine

Giving them unit shipments won’t really change much, without banks Dutch are nothing, and without sending 700 wood, then bank wagon, then Dutch can’t make banks, then it becomes a Spain situation where the only way to make another strategy better than an already pretty strong strategy is to add a ridiculously OP strategy.

if it makes the dutch more aggressive it would be a huge improvement to their playstyle. age 2 aggression can also be enabled by other levers, such as reducing the gold cost of their villagers to allow room for more military units. in vanilla dutch one tricks had access to powerful rushes, from all in pike flushes to crazy aggressive hussar/skirm/pike timings that would demolish weaker players and was followed by a surprisingly decent eco.

I was always impressed by such strategies and if we give them some more room to succeed, such as an age 2 skirm shipment or 80 gold cost villagers, while reducing incentives for highly defensive/turtle play through bank hp/cost, we can put the dutch playstyle in a healthier and more interactive direction.

Reducing the banks coin gather rate is fine by me, I’d prefer that to a hp nerf.

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