Some suggestions to make unique tech more useful

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
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Hello, everyone.

I think some effects of the unique tech can not attract the player to build a castle specially for researching it, or even if the effect can help the player’s strategy, it is hard to research it in the time in need.

1. Ironclad: the effect that Siege weapon melee armor +4 can share to allies.
Just make it more worthy.

2. Crenellations: any garrisoned melee units can shoot arrows, not only infantry but also cavalry.
The occasion putting infantry into buildings is too rare, most of infantry like Pikeman are not worth doing this. Now you can put injured Paladin into the castle after skirmish, especially you have free Herbal Medicine and more arrows shooting.

3. Orthodoxy: not only gives Monks +3/+3 armor, but Boyar (or all military units) resist conversion +30% effective.
When Slav player go monk rush or siege monk rush, it’s hard to build a castle. Give it extra effect to make it more worth researching.

4. Corvinian Army: switch into Imperial age, make Magyar Huszars can be trained at the Stable instead of getting goldless.
The player can use cheaper common Hussars when he/she have no gold, or use stronger Magyar Huszars when he/she have good economy. Both of Magyar techs are useful originally, btw.

5. Recurve Bow: switch into Castle age.

6. Madrasah: not only Monks return 33 gold when killed, but Relics generate +50% gold.
Almost same reason with Orthodoxy. More gold give the player more chance to use Camel or Mameluke instead of archers only.

7. Nomad: increase the cost to 450 wood, but make the population cap at the maximum like Huns.
Become true nomads. Nobody spend resources to research this for its original effect instead of training Mangudai.

8. Atheism: cost down to 200 food and 200 gold.
If you have a little extra resources, it is easier to give it a try now.

9. Great Wall: not only Stone Wall and Tower +30% HP, but also makes castle fire scorpion’s arrow as first arrow (or 2~3 extra arrows like Yasama).
The original effect is weaken and more expensive than the tech at University. Chinese has Fortified Wall/Bracer/Architecture/Keep/Arrowslits/Heated Shot/Bombard Tower, full tower and wall, it is pretty enough, making Great Wall unneeded, so it need become more attractive.

10. Paper Money: the player and their allies not only instantly receive 500 gold but also receive 1 gold per 2 or 3 seconds automatically.
Even if it became cheaper than before, it still seems to be research rarely.

11. Silk Road: not only halves the cost of Trade Carts and Trade Cogs, but also halves the cost of Market and Feitoria (including its pop cost), and share the effect to allies.

12. Greek Fire: not only increases the range of Fire Ships, but also let Fire Tower and Flamethrower can be available for the player and their allies.
Just for fun. Make it useful in land map.

13. Kataparuto: just change it to “Bushido”: Samurai get +2 pierce armor and +10% moving speed.
This is impossible but what I want.
Japanese never used Trebuchets and Catapult in the history, but they learn Gunpowder from Portuguese and use it in the civil war. So give Japanese Bombard Cannon to re-balance that.
In the History, the duty of Samurai in the battle is charging at the front, but now they are hard to get closer to archer UU.

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And some interesting idea for the game.

1. Livestock: Player can train the livestock at Mill, similar to TC in old Magyar campaign “Honfoglalás”.
The player may train the kind of the livestock which on the map as Gaia’s units in the beginning. Some civ may research the tech at Mill that improve Shepherd’s efficiency and speed up training the livestock in the Feudal age and Castle age.
100 food livestock (sheep, turkey) cost 30 food, and 150 food livestock (cow) cost 45 food.

2. Fortified Palisade Wall: Palisade Wall can upgrade to Fortified Palisade Wall at University in the Castle age. Besides, the upgrading about Wall and Tower can also be researched at Wall and Tower own.

3. Seminary: Being researched at Monastery in the Imperial age. Having University as prerequisite, Monks are created 33% faster.

4. Trade Workshop: Except for Portuguese, Villagers can build it in the Imperial age. Similar to Feitoria, but takes up 15 population and only generates gold.
The player may research some tech at Feitoria and Trade Workshop.
(1) Pop taking and cost -20% (Feitoria: 20>16, Trade Workshop: 15>12).
(2) Sell food would earn extra 15% gold (Cash crop).
(3) Gold generating +100% faster (Mercantilism).
(4) Recieve recent pop * 5 gold (Taxation).
(5) Trade Carts and Trade Cogs +3/+3 armor (Caravan Guard)
(6) Trade Carts and Trade Cogs created 33% faster (Charter).

5. Afforestation: Being researched at Lumber Camp in the Imperial age. After researching, Villagers can take 500 wood and 200 seconds (same as a castle) to construct a 5 * 5 building. It would become 25 trees after construction. This ensures the source of wood in the late game.

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I would agree on the monk unique techs, more often than not the tech is useless once you have a castle. Personally, I think all the other unique techs are fine. Particularly recurve bow, it would be a very scary thing to have +1 att +1 range in castle age.

Nomads is actually quite decent in lategame, especially on maps other than arabia. Especially since you can shift+delete houses quickly in aoe2 DE, I think it’s definitely worth getting to free up space, especially on maps where space is often a limited ‘resource’ (nomad, BF, etc)

Crenellations is underrated in my opinion. from personal experience, it’s extremely annoying to push a castle with crenellations on a hill. They cover an incredible amount of area, and you can’t use BBC to clear castles. The other effect ‘infantry fire arrows inside towers/castles’ could probably be a civ bonus instead

Great wall is quite good as well, as it also increases the HP of BBTS and keeps. it’s fairly cheap as well, so IMO it’s fine.

paper money is in a fine spot IMO. even worth getting in 1v1 lategame.

Silk road is incredibly powerful as well for it’s cost. If you get 40 carts, you save 2000 wood and 1000 gold. Definitely does not need a buff.

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Just like Chivalry (400 wood & 400 gold), Recurve Bow (600 wood & 400 gold) can be in castle age. While you go Knights or CAs, it will be hard to research such an expensive powerful tech before you start Imperial age researching. But, yes, this is worth discussing.

Btw, it is significant to the late game that you can use MHs or common Hussars at stables. That is why I switch them.

In my observation, no. In a 200 population game, the player just need to build 30~40 2*2 houses. The map will be larger while players are more, so the space is not the really important resources in most of occasions. You may see the epic player’s late games, the space still not the issue.

It is effective only when the players are annihilated, having to run and construct a new base or clean the passing way for trading. It is really inactive and unattractive that the players would use the resources to train more Mangudai or research other techs instead of researching it. Especially, nobody will waste the attention on click-and-delete the houses in the battle.

So give it more active effect, it worth even if it become more expensive.

In the most of occasions, Teutons players go Knights or Tower rush, including BBT rush in Inperial age. It is rare to train infantry for putting them into the castle instead of charging, because they are not too expensive to worth it, especially Pikeman in the late game.

Range +3 is still awesome, but infantry shooting become useless. If the effect can include the other melee units like Knights, it would be more active.

If you wanna improve your wall to slow down the invasion from the enemy, you might go Fortified Wall first. If you wanna improve your Towers to defend or rush the enemy, you might go Architecture/Keep/Arrowslits first. They are cheaper and not need a castle and stone cost, espacially the stone will more and more precious with time going by.

The most of Chinese game I have watched never research Great Wall, because it would being made redundant If University techs are good enough to deal the problem. Cost down or buff it.

Yes, ostensibly. The player can change food and wood to gold, it seems great but why do people still underrate it? Because food or wood are lacking in early Imperial age? or 500 gold just not enough? It is worth discussing.

Yes. But it is hard to research it earlier than training the carts, especially while your gold lacking. It only show its value when the carts are killed and the player need to remake them, such a shame. Just make it more attractive to be researched earlier by letting the teammates also get the benefits.
In the other hand, it is totally useless in 1v1 if we cannot construct Trade Workshops.

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I think it could be op for certain allies like celts

95% you just put vils in your castle. I think one of this techs should be really change. It’s like neither really helps Teutons to be a more ofensive civ. Neither makes a great difference

Aboyt the Magyar : i think their UT are fine the way they are. Otherwise, they CA would. Be too strong in castle age

I really like this one.

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Chivalry tech is very limited by economy, it’s certainly imcomparable. the thing is that you can get the tech in mid castle age or on the way to imperial age before other civs have a good counter to the unit. I cannot overstate how powerful this tech is, +1 att means 2+2 knights die like flies, +1 range makes them a lot stronger vs ranged units.

magyar huszars and hussars are in a great spot IMO.

then you haven’t watched/played many high level TGs. Less houses means less clutter, less bumping, and space can certainly be a limited resource on maps like nomad. It’s by no means a top priority but not a bad tech by any means

this is an issue with balancing in general. There are 70 UTs (2 for each civilization), there are about ~14-15 competitive civs at the moment, vietnamese aren’t one of them. There are only a few high level players. At the moment you cannot state that ‘people underrate it’.

It’s not. You should already be starting trade when gold is about to run low. 500F 250G is super cheap for its effect. You need a castle anyway for Pavise/genoesse xbows/trebs/conscription anyway, there is no reason to not get it before starting trade.

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I would love to be all the civs at the same level (more or less) it would make the game 10 times more entertaining

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Well, I think it is fine. But this is a nice view point, maybe buffing in the another way will be more balanced.

Yes, the reason I put cavalry in the castle is for healing after the skirmish. If it could add the arrows, it would be a bonus.
But only buffing cavalry can make Teutons become offensive, including Husbandry and Light Cavalry at least. They were a chivalric order, not a group of tower builders.

No, I have watch many Mongol games. It seems unnecessary in almost every game.
The value is only shining when the population buildings are destroyed, especially the castle. The players can avoid from getting stuck on pop maximum, it is the main effect of the original tech. That all.

I never said it is a bad tech, of cause the player can give it a try if he/she has extra resources. However, in the most of occasions, this become not essential. If it can get population cap maximum like his nomads brother Huns, not only that you could delete the houses for the space for what you said, but also saving the wood from building the houses since Castle age. It is really worth it even it become expensive.

Almost every reason I stating is not only my opinion but also the players’ in the forum in my country. Only the solutions is my own idea.

You also must spend your gold on military and other techs, it’s easy to lack gold while training the military units and trading units in the same time, that is what I mean. If the players have 250 gold, most of them I met just train more units to fight, or 2 more carts for paying off quicker.

I never deny the effect about the halved cost is good, sharing to allies for just for making it better. If your teammate is Portuguese, it would really helpful on Feitoria.

So buff Paper Money is one way to help Viet better.

In the another hand, Great Wall is better to be a scenario editor’s building, 2 * 2 wall and 2 * 4 gate with strong HP and real Chinese style looks, than 4 layers common wall and even tech.
There are so many things in Chinese culture and history to be made to an another unique tech, and there will definitely be a way to return the gunpowder to Chinese and keep balance.

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I think this tech is designed to synergizewith the fact that you’ll probably create T knights to defend your castles. Either way, I think Teutons should get light cav. Specially because pretty much all the time you end playing paladins with them

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Slow moving is such a fatal problem for melee units, making Teutonic Knights being used seldom. The real fact is, it is really really rare to use TK in the evenly matched game. TK could be designed like Konniks, being weaker mounted knights initially, standing up as stronger infantry (like now) after being killed. It may let TK go to the front earlier and keep fighting on foot. But it is impossible, haha.

Give Teutons Hussars ( Light Cavalry at least) and Husbandry, not only let their Paladins more practical but also help on the late game.

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I agree on give them light cav, but Instead of give them Husbandry, i will preffer some kind of speed bost to TK