Ending my share at this time, I have to admit that AOE 3 is very inconsistent. Aztecs and Mexico are fine, new nations in South America that speak Spanish or Portuguese are fine which took independence in 19th century for the first time like Brazil are fine (because they will probably be added soon) but some people don’t like the Habsburgs Austria as other country of from Germany because they have the same language. I’m with people wanting Brazil or i like a Mexico faction but i want add Austria and i think that Germany should be rework. AOE 3 and AOE 2 used to be very generic, too generic in the past years. Then when the next Dlc comes out, the games started to get more detailed. An example is that once in AOE 2 there wasn’t even “Slavs” as a faction, and then it was added. Finally came Dlc with Czechs and Poles. Maybe soon the Serbs will come and “Slavs” will be Rus. I also believe that Germany needs to be reworked (replace ,Austrian" elements to Prussian, Bavarian, Saxon and others). Austria should be a new faction with the option to equalize Hungary as it was in the 19th century. In fact, even the strange will be potential Historical Battle mission with “German” Vienna in 1683 as Germany or what about Silesian Wars for example? This does not mean that I have any anti-german phobia, but rather that Austria was a different entity in general, which over the course of history has become even higher -more territories with other nations came to Habsburg Empire like Bohemia or Hungary and others. As for Germany, I sugesst a few XVIII century battles of Frederick the Great in Historical Battles mode and also a later battles like as the Franco-Prussian War of 1870. Also, quoting developers from a few years ago does not make much sense because they changed their mind significantly when Dlc with factions sold well.
Overall, with the addition of Germany reworks and Habsburg Austria additions, I would see new factions in Europe, such as Denmark-Norway, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and the Crimean Khanate. The Zaporozhian Cossacks can be used by a revolutionary one or something like that. After all they did not officially have a state at that time. And they were overshadowed by other factions. Last thing that is necessary in my opinion is to add new factions in Africa, Asia, the Americas.
Austria is a nation of German origin but they have been a separate entity for centuries so they have changed and become more unique. In addition, in the course of history, they took over new territories with completely different nations for example: Romanians, Croats, Bosniaks, Slavens, Czechs, Slovaks, even some later some Poles (after the partitions of Poland made with Prussians and Russians at the end of the 18th century) many nations as you can see in the screenshot here - History of Austria - Wikipedia. Habsburg Empire was quite a lot more than another German state they are a imprtant power so they should be playable from the start on equal laws as Germans (should be reworked to “Germany”, Austrian elements should be cut from them and replaced with Prussian , Bavarian or Saxonian elements). For someone from another place in the world who looks at Austria from the 21st century as a small German-speaking country may seem like just a "small German country from the beginning of the world " but it is an independent country with a very rich history. That’s why it should be on an equal laws and not just a “revolutionary option”. Adding it would also give the opportunity to realize new historical battles involving this country like Zenta 1697 when they fought against the Ottoman Empire and won.
,Germans" as one faction is the result of what AOE 3 was in 2005. It was a more ,general" game in many aspects and had simplifications in terms of many cultures (many were not even in the game at the time). Now it can be extended and refined.
As a person who grew up and lives in Austria who has researched also a lot about Habsburg and Austrian history there is one thing safe to say. Germany and Austria are two completly different entities whith their own history, tradition etc.
Curious about this. Was this the case before 1806? Were the other Holy Roman German Empire polities as different between eachother as Prussia and Austria AND would that mean that they warrant their own civ? If that was the case, what would you think about adding every Kingdom in the German Confederation? Do you think this would be the same as adding Argentina and Peru alongside Mexico?
so within history, esp. at academic level, we have what is called “periode relation” which is some of the most important part of source criticism. basically it means that you have to consider who wrote and their period from which they wrote it.
if you wrote today in Austria, or esp. in the postwar period, you would focus on the difference because its part of the narrative which is creating the Austrian identity as something separate from Germany. what this means is that those historians are not neutral, they have an agenda which reflects what they write and what sources they find.
Germany is a large country, with diverse regions, and Austria is a part of this.
Austrian history was not seperate from german history, austria was the emperor of the Holy roman empire, was a founding member of the german confederation and saw itself as a protector of the smaller german states.
and within Germany there are regions that are much closer culturally and historically to Austria than anything else, Bavaria is the most obvious example of this, Bavaria is much closer to Austria than it is to Pomerania or lower saxony culturally, religiously and linguistically, and have for centuries been Austria’s close ally.
My good sir I completely agree with you! The Habsburg dynasty has a fascinating, distinct and long history, they forged a huge empire mostly out of dynastic marriages and hereditary lands instead of military conquest. The core problem with the Germans in AOE3 is that they were designed as mixture of elements from Prussia, the Holy Roman Empire and Austria. Sadly, trying to untangle those elements to create an Austrian civilization would be too disruptive to current gameplay. I’m all in for a Habsburg Austria civ but I don’t that’s feasible at the moment
100% agree. This is one of the very few things we have gotten a solid answer on. I don’t know why this topic continues to re-emerge when the answer is “No.”
I’m an ardent opponent of the concept of a German rebrand, as I completely agree with the devs; it’s the “Germans” in game, not Germany. The civ represents an amalgam of Germanic peoples during the early modern period, which includes periods when the Teutonic Order still controlled Prussia (it was lost and became a Polish dutchy in 1525 and wasn’t independent as a Germanic state until 1701). The justification used by Ensemble for including them in the first place were German merchants’ attempts to colonize Venezuela under the HRE emperor Charles V (a Hapsburg). War wagons, doppelsoldners, settler wagons, these are all characteristic of the HRE/Austria. Needle gunners, uhlans, Berlin, and Frederick the Great are characteristic of Prussia. To split the Germans or rebrand them would be a great disservice. It destroys a well-loved civ in game, and ignores the complex history of the german peoples, reducing their history to the state of affairs in the Victorian era, less than 70 years of the ~450-year timespan covered in-game. It’s awfully reductionist to view history through such a small window. During most of this period, the concept of nationalism didn’t exist.
As you mention elsewhere, before 1848, the concepts of many prominent countries didn’t exist other than in the minds of some canny politicians like Bismark. “Germany”, “Italy”, and “India” didn’t exist because nationalism wasn’t a thing. But Germanic, Italian, and Indian people groups certainly did. Hence, why in game, it’s the Germans, Italians, and Indians.
It was an active debate between 1848 and 1866 about what form Germany would take; großerdeutschland or kleinerdeutschland. Prussia won, the Germans united under Prussia, Austria was excluded, and the kleinerdeutschland was the ultimate result.
Can we just let this die? Honestly. It’s never going to happen and it doesn’t even make sense.
People talking about playable Romania and countries like that. Its your opinion that this not will be happen ever. Devs said this long time ago , many things are changed and they are open for more community ideas than before. AOE 3 is a game which you can fight as Mexico against Aztecs and its good for you i presume? But Austrians are Germans and Germans are Germans… And you say that i shouldnt talking about anymore and people like me. Excelent.
Even after independence the Nahua people had a rather distinct identity from that of the “mexican”.
“Las tres culturas” is a concept for a reason. Even back then people already knew Mexican was a distinct identity from both the Spanish and the many, many indigenous peoples of the area.
Civs are not even internally consistent to bring up that argument, nevermind isolate this specific circumstance.
You can’t be telling me that’s more unrealistic than the British having literally 15th Longbowmen alongside 19th Rockets or Pavisiers alongside Bersaglieres in Italy.
I agree they shouldn’t. I don’t underatand why foot archers for Euro civs are not replaced with rifle infantry automatically in the Fortress or Industrial age instead of being separate units. For example the Longbow and Pavisier being automatically replaced by Rangers and Bersagliere respectively.
This is why archaic infantry in the original game couldn’t be upgraded past veteran outside of special cases.
If I remember correctly the devs way back in 2005 knew the Longbowman was super anachronistic even from the game start, they just included them anyways because “they are iconic for the british.”
Battle of Sadowa1866 - A great battle for the “Historical Battles” mode, but problematic due to the very general concept of Germans in the game. If Austria is added as a separate nation someday as it should be, this battle would be fun to see in the game.
I’ll add that even with triggers you can change the name of the civs. You can have a German player called Austrians and another German player called Prussians or whatever. If Prussiaboos are concerned with flags, make a HB civ, with the exact same techtree as the Germans and use the flag you want.
But do not split Germans.
It would be nice if we could customize flags like we choose explorer skins. Give each civ a few flag options that show on buildings.
But I’d prefer the shipment button stays the same, otherwise it will be very confusing.
Before the explorer skins I have no concept of how you could modify your in-game unit appearance from the home city panel. But now it seems to be possible.
The Habsburg dynasty has a fascinating, distinct and long history, they forged a huge empire mostly out of dynastic marriages and hereditary lands instead of military conquest. The core problem with the Germans in AOE3 is that they were designed as mixture of elements from Prussia, the Holy Roman Empire and Austria. Sadly, trying to untangle those elements to create an Austrian civilization would be too disruptive to current gameplay. I’m all in for a Habsburg Austria civ but I don’t that’s feasible at the moment 
