Somehow they make English the most un-inspired and the weakest faction of all

All camel give +1 bonus armor to infantry, it’s just easier to keep Camel Archer alive than Camel Rider. Abbasid also have a tech that increase all infantry HP by 15% but it was bug in the stress test

They have nice bonuses. But by no means would I say they by default steamroll the english or any other opponents.

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Atm +1 armor (aoe effect) isn’t that big a buff as the +2 Maa armor tech. Especially if you don’t have a lot of camels sitting around the infantry. The english player can just snipe them to remove the buff.

Im unsure about how well +15% hp maa do vs +2 armor MAA
so we shall see.

The abbasids generally came off as “anti cav” rather than “anti-infantry” .

Yeah a lot of stuff just didn’t work in the stress test apparently.

Its really hard to tell without actually going in and trying the game out so we will have to see at launch.
We might even be getting another balance patch due to stress test results.

I think the main weakness of English is just the lack of Culverin and some newb just stick to Longbowman while fighting Knight and MAA. The Nest of Bees wasn’t as strong as before so the lack of Culverin aren’t as impactful. The English in the end just feel bland because their UUs aren’t useful at late game.

Yeah I saw barely anyone using the english MAA line.
Which was unfortunate as that’s like half of their bonuses ignored.

They do feel kinda bland besides their longbowmen tbh.
Its kind of hard to think of a unique unit they could add to the english though.

Billmen sound like a “unique” unit but it feels like Relic just replaced these guys with the generic spear line.

Maybe give the english a “Billmen” upgrade to their spear line?

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Yeah they do feel a bit bland in comparison. Some of their landmarks are also responsible for that.

They have the organ gun, but I haven’t seen anyone use it in a match against another player.
Medium range, pretty vulnerable. Not sure how it compares to the mangonel.

Here are the costs though:

Mangonel is
400 wood
200 gold
40 seconds to build

Organ gun is
400 wood
600 gold
45 seconds to build

that is the same cost as a Bombard

English MAA’s are solid. Good frontline.

And Mangonel isn’t a great units to begin with.

In the few times i’ve managed to use it it did pretty good dmg. It’s main problem was its range tbh, its worse than a Handcanoneer’s range.

Yeah I feel mangonels in general need to be buffed.

Their worst one was the feudal landmark that healed I think.
That one’s definitely going to change because no one uses it.

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And piss poor range armor for a siege unit. They remove the siege damage from fire arrow but then they nerf the ranged armor of the Organ Gun. Seems the devs want it to be countered by ranged units

It seems to be pretty contradictory for sure.

Well I think the English are pretty damn strong civ. They have the best archers from age one up to age 4. Their men-at-arms are also among the strongest with all the unique upgrades. Their farm economy is pretty damn good, and remember farms are usually not as good as natural food sources but not for the English. Their defense… I think the strongest so far until the enemy get sieges. Their ships are better than other civs with extra range… English civ is also the easiest to play means easier to micro manage.
What’s more should they have? People are already more inclined to play English. During beta test I’ve seen more English players than any other civ.

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People are more inclined to start with the English. Doesn’t mean that will translate into long term popularity. We’ll have to wait and see.

They seemed pretty strong to me, though too generic.
The stress test was too short to really explore everything, so perceptions might evolve significantly.

Even the developer couldn’t find any use for Abby of Kings and took the obvious choice. The game is a joke and designed as such.

Interesting mental gymnastics there.

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Yeah, developers took a massive mental gymnastics course designing this game.

Somehow these threads on the English civ keep bringing out the weirdest hot takes. Btw, I believe you need to be 13 or older to agree to the board ToS.

In all seriousness though, if you actually want to engage beyond just trolling - care to elaborate on how one balance designer choosing a specific landmark in a showmatch says anything about their approach on the general design of the game?

I mean I get that the Abbey of Kings is in a bad spot right now, but we are still in the discovery phase and making broad changes based on some very early feedback can hurt the game much more than a bad landmark. It is also completely fine to have some niche choices on landmarks. The landmark decision doesn’t need to be anywhere close to 50/50 to not break the game.

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Im sure changes will happen before the final game comes out