Spain Discussion POLL

  • Spanish Gold nerf justified
  • Spanish Gold nerf NOT justified

0 voters

As y’all know, Spain is a one dimensional civ with a high skill floor, its only viable strategy is FF so you can predict what Spain will do without scouting 99% of times. Spain’s weakness is its poor eco and predictability, Spain’s strength comes from tempo and fast shipments. In order to get a decent eco you have to send Spanish Gold, but the opportunity cost is you lose all the tempo that is your civ bonus. It’s quite easy to punish a greedy move like SG, so in my opinion the nerf from 400c → 360c was unjustified.

Secondly, as Spain doesn’t have access to a 1000 coin shipment like other civs do, the nerf to Spanish Gold is a direct nerf to their Fast Industrial which already wasn’t as fast or as strong as other civs’. I’m a Spanish main and I’d like it to have other strategies that are viable like other civs can do. A rework to the Papal Guard politician is needed, Spain is an archaic infantry civ but archaic infantry is rarely ever used. Earlier in the year it granted Guard Xbow/Pike tech for free, which was apparently too strong, so they nerfed it and now it’s a useless politician.
My suggestion is this:
Papal Guard immediately grants veteran xbow/pike upgrades on top of the 50% discount to guard upgrade.
This way the politician would be viable but not OP.
I mean, seriously, 24 xbow pike shipments in age4 is a joke unless you can invest in their veteran upgrades before which is hard because Spain’s eco is bad.

Thirdly, the Logistician was previously OP, now it’s just simply not good and never used anymore. I appreciate the devs wanting to give each civ a unique age up option but I’d much rather have the Spanish Logistician simply grant an arsenal and military wagons…
Please lemme know what y’all think, I tried to keep it as non ranty as possible. lol

2 Likes

Logistician was a bit too strong but now it’s been nerfed into the ground, spanish gold itself was fine there was no need to reduce the amount.

I’m not that familiar with spain but the papal guard would be better effecting rodoleros instead of pikes?

2 Likes

Yeah but rods are already the bread and butter of Spain, whereas the xbow and pikes (royal guard) are hardly ever seen. I’d like to be using more archaic infantry but there’s just no viable way of using them past age2.

1 Like

truthfully, it was only a 40 coin nerf. however, i think it was unnecessary as the logistician was the true culprit

has all unit types, so no it is definitely not.

its eco is average.

its the standard option in treaty, in fact you’d have to be dumb not to take it there.

also its still a lot more useful than most other options like for example the dutch or french options.

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I’d say it’s eco is on the weaker side at least compared to euro/asian/african civs only the natives have worse eco, spanish gold is it’s only way of boosting eco for mid game and that becomes less effective over time.

Basically every civ has some other benefit to eco, brits get free vills, french cdb, germans get settler wagons, dutch banks etc.

3 Likes

Yeah, civs with one overpowered strategy are not one dimensional, they just have a one dimensional meta. Nerfing that one strategy does not make them less flexible. They could be given a few more options for age 2 like adding in a Conquistador shipment, but they’re not in desperate need of anything major.

400c–>360c is a 10% reduction, that’s a big nerf, but yeah, Logistician was the culprit.

Its only viable strategy is FF… so again one dimensional.
How many times do you see pros doing anything other than FF? Compared to almost every other civ which can decide to stay age2 or age3 or age4.

Not talking about treaty. Speaking solely in terms of 1v1 supremacy.

I agree they don’t need anything major, what I’m proposing is just reverting the SG nerf and making the papal guard politician not worthless.

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This guide from one of the better Spanish players states otherwise:
Plop Spain Guide

Most of them are FF.

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Sure, but they aren’t as one dimensional as OP makes it seem so, with multiple different variations/bo differences post it.

Lol

The post say in this part…:

4) - Build Orders

When you think about spain, you think about FF, when you think about FF, you think about spain, if you don’t like FFing, don’t play spain…

1 Like

Spain need revert the spanish gold nerf.

Like some other old civs, need a cards rework.

Log need a few buff. Add 1 tercio? :stuck_out_tongue:

Add conquerors in shipments or in church/church.

Promove the use of archaic inf, add free updates for pikes (where are the tercios? The better inf are a ghost in this game!), xbows and rods (this not sure).

Promove the fast fight for theyre bonus fast exp.

Promove the use of native cards. X2 shipments?

1 Like

Ofc, you don’t ff with skirmishers against a cavalry heavy race, you switch the unit to rods & muskets.

I think Spain is a civ with a complete roster of units, almost as good as France, but it leaves something to be desired in terms of barracks and stables updates and improvement cards.
I think an interesting way to give Spain a boost would be to trade its military improvement of the Church for an economic improvement, just as it is for Portugal.

1 Like

Yo si consideraba oro español algo fuerte, Yo creo que el problema es como funciona mecanicamente no esta balanceado puede llegar a juntar demasiado oro ese envio, pero por otro lado si te envias oro español como primer envio estando en edad 3 tambien puede ser muy arriesgado, Si es verdad y bastantemente afirmativo que españa carece de estrategias, yo digo que le falta mas innovación a la civilizacion se hizo medianamente un buen trabajo en el definitive edition en apoyar a España pero aun le falta mas, Si quieren hacer españa mas viable hay que iniciar con innovar en su baraja teniendole mas cartas y retrabajando otras,
En partidas de Equipo tambien es su problema la baraja de españa no suele apoyar a su equipo como cualquier otra civ, gran parte de su cartas en equipo estan edad 1 y no se usan nunca,

Una carta muy buena que servia en partidas de equipo y 1v1 con logista era la que te permitia crear la infateria arcaica mas rapido que era antes un 50% estaba bueno pero si desbalanceada en equipo, Ahora da 40% deberian haberle bajado el porcentaje para sus aliados no para España.

Los envios de los nativos de España tambien son deficientes, te entregan 12 piqueros mayas que a mi gusto son peores que los piqueros españoles ya que son mas lentos y hacen menos daño, a cambio solo tiene mas vida, pero los piqueros se usan especificamente para hacer daño a sus counter o asediar no para mitigar daño por lo que me parece tambien pesimas cartas, en cima que suele generar cola de cartas ya que se demora en llegar 1 minuto, Lo que mas me gustaria en españa seria innovar y darle mas caracteristicas como la tienen todas las civilizaciones que salieron con y despues del “DE”

2 Likes

If you want a more innovative change, maybe what I suppose might be something interesting, but you will find a lot of resistance:
Rodeleros are no longer Royal Guards, who will play this role will be the Wallon Guards, which would be the Musketeers.
As I said, the resistance will be because no one wants to see Spain stop being an archaic infantry civ.

I guess they preferred to do it in the rodelero to have more variety, because there were already 2 civilizations they are the real update of the musketeers in age 4 (Portugal and British)

But I would think that it would not be of much use because you have to do it at age 4, besides that the musketeers do not benefit from one card, the rodelero benefits from several, but if they make those musketeers stronger wallon guards they could serve as a mercenary card in age 4 or better remove the arquebusiers of age 4 that are worth 1500 or 2000 of food otherwise I am wrong and change they put the wallon guards

I think they could adjust the rodelero with changes, such as slowing him down and giving him more damage in return, they give him a sprint ability like chimues, carolinos, nizam etc.

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i dont think it would make the faction more unique or interesting to get a royal guard musketeer.

like by that point your just playing sweden with the unit combination you have.

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The Wallon Guards could be Church technology replacing the current Royal Alabarderos.