Yep, I see where you are going!! You have to consider as well that it requires a lot of skill to pull that off though which many players including myself unfortunately don’t have!! So 9 bow at least give us a chance!!
1 Like
To be honest I think that if you nerf the Papal Guard politician Spain will end up being to weak in team games where making them to weak once the game scalates to age IV
Instead of removing the guard xbow upgrade from the politician entirely, I think it would be decent if it enables Guard xbow upgrade at Barracks for 600 w and 600 c or is it still overpowered?
1 Like
In my opinion, it would be underpowered and would make the politician useless. I think we should give it a little more time before we jump to conclusions. When players catch wind of this strategy, counters will inevitably pop up. But give it time.
1 Like
I think adding the option to upg your xbow is good but not for free. Free tech have a biggest impact in 1v1 than team because you can’t FI in team most of the time, so when you want age 4, maybe arround 17-18 min, your eco is good enough and you can pay for the guard upg.
1 Like
I beg to differ. Most spain players have already started using this strategy. I am not much of a spain player but I tried it, it seems overpowered. I understand your point that there can be a proper counter to this strategy but the politician itself seems too much (4k resources). This favours Spain hugely because it has both 24 xbow and 24 pike shipments (Compared to 21 ckn and 21 qiang pike from China and also the same respective shipments from France, This seems super strong since the pikes are going to be royal guard). Sweden also have the age 4 politician and it only gives royal guard upgrade to pikes (2k resources, 2.4k if you include veteran upgrade) The age up description clearly mentions “Pikemen reach royal guard status” (Although, Swede can’t train xbows lol but here’s my point.) This is the way it should work for Spain. But instead, The age up description for Spain only mentions “Crossbowmen and Pikemen reach guard status” and not “Crossbowmen reach guard status and Pikemen reach royal guard status” which is what happening now with the politician. So, it’s kind of a mistake you see.
Given that Spain has been restored to its old strength concerning the strength and XP-cost of unit shipments I feel that the community made changes to the Spanish Gold, Unction and Caballeros cards are made redundant. These modded changes were designed to bolster the much weaker Spain on TAD and as such are no longer necessary.
Spanish Gold for example used to boost galleons and make pirates trainable at the saloon. A fun troll card in water games that did not encourage a fast industrial or greed-oriented agenda at all (which 400 gold per shipment certainly does). So, changing back the Spanish Gold card could be a more subtle way to nerf Spain’s fast industrial rather than directly nerfing the Papal Guard politician.
But it’s only been a week since Garja made it popular with his match against Soldier. I say give it some time and if there’s no counter then nerf it. Garja said that he lost a couple of matches using this strategy so I’m optimistic that it can be countered. And I understand your point about Sweden. I don’t think Sweden should get that politician because it’s useless for them and unfair because most of the other euro civs get pikes AND crossbows upgraded. Either change the politician for Swedes or make it so they can train crossbows. I think they have an 8 crossbow shipment so I don’t think this would affect the meta. Yeah, 4k resources seems like a lot but we aren’t talking about normal units. We’re talking about pikes and crossbows which are garbage units. Tbh, before this strategy came up, I thought that pikes and crossbows needed a buff because they are bad even against what they are supposed to counter.
1 Like
Those cards are better like that because it make spain more unique (spanish gold was a pure genius idea). Spain on ep9 was fine they over buffed it with the 9 xbow and broken age 4 politician.
Garja make it popular to you, but spain was already under our radar. I play spain as a main since 2008 and i think they are too strong (not only because the age 4 politician but because they have the old xp rate bonus plus all others buff , this version of spain is better than nilla one which was considered op).
2 Likes
I meant that Garja made the Spain FI strategy popular not the civ. Before that match between Garja and Soldier, no one was talking about that FI strategy. That’s great that you play since 2008 but you can still be wrong. I say give it time and we will see if that’s true or not.
yeah spanish gold is a great idea that opens up many possible strats for spain. I would rather see everything else nerfed if necessary, but keep spanish gold.
about the IV ageup, its obviously too strong. Every other industrial ageup for other civs is arround 1k value, and this one is 4k, at the same time it synergizes with 9bow ageup, defensive pikes+falco in age3, 24/24/20 units shipments in age4… is way too strong and needs a nerf.
Giving royal pikes and “allow you to upgrade of xbows to guard” is a decent compromise. Is still 2400 res value + unlocking a upgrade, so much above average in value, and also keeps the synergies of super cheap tercio pikes + pike cards cards + artillery (2 falco from age3, 4 culvs age4, 2hc…) that is so strong buy maybe could be kept as strong strategy.
honestly, even nerfing to “upgrades xbow to guard status” alone it would already be a strong ageup option, at 1600 value
I don’t know what to say, spain are considered by the very top players like a top civ, not because of garja, not since one week. What as revealed the spain strengh is not necessary their FI but more because their strengh was obscursed by sweden and inca strengh.
What are you saying? I can’t understand. I didn’t say that Spain wasn’t a top civ, and I definitely didn’t say that Garja made Spain a top civ. I just said that Garja was the first player to show the FI strategy to the community and since then that strategy has become popular (which sparked this whole discussion). I also said that we should wait before jumping to conclusions about Spain’s FI strategy (politician, xbow age up, age 4 shipments, etc). Of course, it’s gonna seem op if no one has played against it before. In my opinion, time will show whether it’s op or not.
2 Likes
It’s a bit too soon to tell if Spain needs a nerf.
Right now Spain is legit strong, meaning with that it’s a top5 civ or so. But for example French are also incredibly strong because of how efficient their age1 is (13v TP, 12/10 with TP, 14v TP+market).
It’s just hard to tell at the moment. Ye the papal guard age up is probably too strong, being worth 4k resources but let’s see. Other civs have the same politician.
2 Likes
On paper, 4k value out of an age up is way too much but it’s pikes and crossbows we are talking about here. I guess if time shows that it’s op, maybe make it so the age up doesn’t include the veteran upgrades. Or maybe reduce the pike and crossbow shipments in age 4 to 20 (from 24)? You guys will think of something.
1 Like
Other civs have the same politician but not the shipement with it (and not royal pik by the way). I mean, swe have this politician but lol, no xbow. Also spain have cards for xbow and pik, it’s not just the politician it’s :
- politician
- 24/20 shipement + spain bonus on xp
- upg cards
- 9 xbow
What a synergy.
1 Like
I think that Spain is in a good state right now. Talking about 1v1 there are civilizations that just counter Spain really bad for example Brits and Japaneses if they defend themselves good. Now you can even have a fair MU against France. If you mean that they’re really OP on team games then i can just tell you that is not a big deal anyways and we should focus more on the 1v1 balance because that’s where the competitive scene is.
2 Likes
Brit don’t counter spain anymore and spain eat japan ^^.
Spain are not op in team.
Sure, Spain can eat Japaneses but I don’t think that as good as Brits or even France.
Since I’m a man of science we can do a Best of 3 matches. You would be using Spain and I’d be using Brits then we can see if Brits doesn’t counter Spain
If you don’t mind can I ask what’s your ELO?