Well, with the 4k resource worth upgrade, those xbows and pikes are strong. They’re relatively cheap and train faster. So it is very easy to mass and macro to train these units. On top of this, the xbow inaccuracy has been removed and Spain can invest pretty good unit upgrade shipments into these units. I really like the idea of nerfing the 24 unit shipments but I still think that this strategy can be viable and strong even with the politician tweaked.
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That’s what makes this politician interesting though. You have 2 garbage units, that you rarely see outside of age 2, that suddenly become strong. I think that a mass of skirms/lb, goons, and culvs should beat this pretty handily (even if they are age 3 units). But let’s see what happens.
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I recall a thread from a few weeks stating the Spanish were the worst civ lol
yes, amphirion is definitely delirious now. You have made all these changes, to the civ that you have made the most changes because you have no idea how to compensate Spain. British, Germans for example are still stronger, Garja yesterday lost against Holland which is supposed to be his best MU, Holland is super strong and most of the civs are equaled to Spain or even above for being able to have FF and rush, which Spain it doesn’t have, and now you ask to be nerfed. Look, the best thing you can do is remove it from the game and that’s it. What a headache always with Spain, the proplayers learn to handle the most technical civ of the game and they believe that this OP when 99% of the players do not touch it with a stick
Tbh I’m starting to get annoyed getting lesson from peaple with 1200 elo.
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1556 right now , and I do not intend to teach you anything, you will know I do not care, I express my opinion
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1413 is my ELO right now. I’m not in the TOP 200 but hey almost
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With your elo i don’t understand how playing against me can prove your point ^^
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Then you vs Amphi would be a mismatch, it wouldn’t prove anything.
My point would be proven if I win the BO3 
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By the way, i’m not trying to be an asshol* but I think that your higher elo is not enough proof to accuse a whole civilization of overpowered/overbuffed. I recommend you to test it a tons of times around people of your level and against people better than you then upload the recorded games. With Incas Khorix helped see with his gamestyle and streaming they were really broken. Here with Spain is not that clear so we must to stick to the scientific method of test it a tons of times and see the results.
I don’t know what y’all think but i rather take a pill with a ton of research and a lot of people behind it rather than a miracolous pill recommended with not study behind it that back it up
And by the way, Only because at the moment my ELO is lower than yours it doesn’t mean I don’t deeply understand the game, know the basics and I can help you to develope some counter strategies to Spain. I was PR 26 Captain in the old game so the only difference between you and I is pretty much APM.
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Scientific method imply statistic, not one bo3 and spain was fine based on statistic. Now they are better. In a scientific field you want know if there are a consensus arround the subject. I wont do meta-analysis arround that question but when a lot of top player (better than me) plus the fact than spain was fine before all of those buf, are indactors of the spain strengh.
Plus, mathematicly speaking, when your age up gives you 4000 res in one sec where it’s suppose to be 1000-1200.
Also the difference between pr 26 and pr 38 is absolutly not apm but definitly the understanding. Boneng was pr 40 with less than 100 apm, kynesis is one of the best with slow apm. You are an other victime of Dunning-Kruger effect but this is not the subject.
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“I recommend you to test it a tons of times around people of your level and against people better than you then upload the recorded games.”
Less talking and more testing bro, everything looks cool on paper but show us where’s the practice. Today I’m doing the strategy all day by myself and it’s strong but it has its weakness and ways to counter it
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I wont upload all of my spain game ahah
We can do that also btw. You are a victim of the Overconfidence Effect (sure, it doesn’t sound as fancy as Dunning-Kruger but it gets the message across). The fact is that you haven’t given any evidence to back up your claim as NekoBerk said. Some of the people here might not be as high in the ELO rankings as you but that doesn’t mean they are wrong and that you will always be correct when it comes to discussions about Spain. Anyways, there wasn’t a clear consensus about this on the ESOC website forum. I suggest you stay on the argument rather than throwing ridiculous terms across.
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Let’s say things clearly.
1- In esoC there are only two threads dealing with this, a recorded game that does not even reach 4 age and that the enemy French does not even have the level to beat it. Neither in 3 age nor in 4 age nor in any way, what’s more, the French quit before seeing the invincible strategy. We can also see the thread with the BO, in both threads the strategy and counterstrategies are discussed, even that France can do the same and better.
2- We need proof that this is broken, like the hundreds of live games of top players that we saw with the Incas, which were considered garbage and then it turned out that they were OP. If you are a TOP player you should contribute games showing that this strategy is invincible, just like you good players do not get tired of repeating that the rest of us provide evidence.
3- If only your word is enough for being level 38 and you understand the game better than the rest and no tests are needed, , then the Dunning-Kruger effect who has it?
4- I tell you as a player that I know that you are good and I respect you, but the same thing that you ask for others you have to contribute with the same.
5-You talk about nerf just because the pikemen and crossbowmen upgrade are a lot of “free” resources(It is true that they are more resources than they should for age IV). But it is not said that it is not so easy to get to IV alive and more when you are so predictable that the enemy only has to look at your deck and prepare a counterstrategy. Please, proof that what on paper seems broken is really in games, because the games are something different from the simple numbers.
6- If we’re going to use simple math, a British house gives you a villager = 100 food / 0.84 collect = 119s.
a house is worth 100 wood, the British 135.
35 / 0.50 = 70s. No one has ever argued raising the price of British houses to match the cost of the villager’s free food with the wood it should cost. that the upgrade is higher in resources than what corresponds to their age does not mean that it will give you victory or is broken
7-Are we talking about crossbowmen that are probably worse than a 3-age skirm?
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Not easy to reach age 4? Have you ever played spain? They have the fastest and safest ff.You arrive at age 3 to 7 min (approximately). From the many options available to you to defend a possible rush.If your opponent goes up to age 4 , you will have the tp + deck advantage and the politician abused. And of course your number of improved units will allow you to roll on your enemy. Yes Spain needs a nerf for its Fi
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I think peaple don’t understand my point. FI is not broken alone, what is broken is the synergy between their ff and their FI. You can’t blind FI against most of others civ but if you are in a situation where you can, it’s too strong. Also when your tech age up (the papale guard) is safe as other age up politician, you have no reason to use any of them. Why FI with 2 falc/6 lancer? when the papal guard is better in any situation.
Because peaple realy want some rec, Knuch vs kaiser (spain vs german), knush forget to clic age 2 (he age in like 6 min where it’s suppose to be 4.15~) and won without 24 bow / 24 pik in deck. Also knush is not realy a spain player where kaiser is the best german.
Tbh i think i lose my time trying to explain things if it’s just what you remember. So i will quoting myself
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I guess this is what happened
Probably Kaiser didn’t have nothing prepared to counter it or didn’t expect it that’s why he lost. This is too soon to make a judgment, time will tell if Spain is really OP or not. At the moment just leave it like that.
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Kaiser said at min 5 “you didn’t age?” so ofc kaiser scouted it. And it’s not about be prepared, it’s a 6 min age 2 time. Ofc there are other parameters, like the map (ez wallable) and prob a miss play from kaiser but still, imagine the same FI with a proper deck and without those 2 min delay ^^.