Just checked in the editor, putting 5 Spanish conqs vs 5 Persian conqs, they both attack at the same rate (attacks per reload)
After looking into it, apparently, the Spanish bonus only applies to Hand Cannoneers, Cannon Galleons, Bombard Cannons, and their upgraded variants.
Was this always the case?
Yes, but Conquistadors fire at the same rate as Spanish Hand Cannoneers, both at 2.9 seconds.
I think part of the reason is because Conquistadors feature as a unit in the Portuguese campaign. And also Francisco de Orellana and Gonzalo Pizarro are hero Conquistadors.
Whats even the point? Its a UU that doesnt have other civs to compare against meaning its values can be set in stone!
Point is Samurai, Woad Raider, Berserker, Longbowman, Plumed Archers, Huskarl benefit from their civ bonus. But Conquistador doesn’t.
Samurai and Longbowman do; Berserker and Huskarl don’t. The base HP of the first is reduced and the base cost of the second is risen so the bonus doesn’t make them OP. It’s an interesting topic, I mean, the dev’s reasoning behind letting some Unique Units be affected by the bonuses, and not letting some others.
Actually, Conquistador is analogous to Mangudai, and that ties with what I said before. Mangudai rate of fire is not reduced, so they civ bonus make them a machine gun.
Also War Wagons, Jaguar Warriors, Rathas, Kipchaks, Monaspas, Imperial Camels, Kamayuks, Mangudai, Savaran, Organ Guns, Caravels, and Janissaries. Apart from Conquistadors, I can’t find any other examples. (Although apparently Elite Janissaries didn’t benefit from the Turks’ bonus before The Forgotten.) Some of these bonuses are staggered so it actually makes a difference in a normal game, but for many of them it’s only noticeable on full tech tree mode or if you place one for another civ in the editor.
They do, and it really matters for Huskarls since the Goths’ infantry discount is staggered – they cost less in Imperial Age than Castle Age.
The difference is in the code of rhe game. Infantry, archer, siege weapon and cavalry are unit types!
Ergo when something says it effects a unit type it effects ALL of thet type of unit except any mentioned exceptions. The Mayan one is an exception to the rule as that one is deliberately archer/xbow and plume line.
But Celt line is a flat infantry 15% speed code
For Brits the code has one stipulation where after the bonus is applied it actually -1s skirmishers and I also believe gunpowder units with the archer tag
The Spanish bonus once upon a time deliberately read “Hand Cannons and Bombard cannons fire x% faster.” Might as well go back to reading like that
Which means they benefits from the civ bonus. Or else their stats wouldn’t be changed to be balanced. And also you didn’t get the point of what OP or me addressed. In scenario editor, a battle between a Spanish Conq and a Saracens Conq will be a draw. But not the same for a Vikings Berserker vs a Saracens Berserker.
Personally I don’t find any other. Teutons bonus explicitly says “Barracks and Stable” units which clearly excludes their UU. But there is no way you can say that Conqs is excluded from “Gunpowder units”.
Yep. Every UU except Conqs.
I remember that. But that’s also wrong as Cannon Galleon also fire faster.
Dude;
Handcannoneer attack speed : 3.45
Spanish Handcannoneer attack speed: 3.45 / 1.18 = 2.92
Conquistador attack rate: 2.9
The conqs just have the boosted final attack rate hard coded into them. Like, are you insisting that the base should be 3.45 and then apply the reduction for the exact same outcome? Because there’s no reason for that.
I hope you’re not implying that the conq attack rate should be reduced to 2.45.
Oh my God, are we really going to argue about what “benefit” means? I have time on my hands so I’ll take the bait. “Benefit” means that a unit does not have an offset. Woad Raiders movement speed isn’t diminished compared to that of a regular longsword man. The fact that Berserkers and Huskarls are given an offset is meant to compensate the civ bonus, and that means they don’t benefit.
They don’t; read my reply to the other guy above this quote. Huskarl’s base cost is 80 food, 40 gold. They do not benefit from the civ bonus because compared to milita line they are more expensive. The units that do benefit from the civ bonus are militlia line and spear line.
1
There is every reason for that.
You got this one right.
You’re also not suggesting Samurai attack rate should be reduced to 1.43 and then Japanese bonus not apply to them, right?
Okay. I’ll take the “L”. English is not my strong thing. Now replace the word “Benefit” with “Affect” and then read my comments again. Hopefully my small knowledge on English language is accurate now.
Well, if the case is infact that the conq attack rate be changed to 3.45 as a base and then be reduced by the civs bonus…
I guess thats makes a difference if the unit gets converted, but why?
Why is this something worth doing - the end remains the same.
I get what you meant now. My posts merely tried to open about a discussion about what the dev’s reasoning might be behind letting some units benefit, and not just be affected.
No. Converted units don’t change their attack rate. So it is relevant even in less serious situations like scenario editor and campaign. You start with some conqs in Portuguese campaign and they perform exact same as Spanish conqs. But in Cumans campaign, Mangudai won’t fire faster.
Consistency.
BTW, I’m not demanding this change to be happened. I was just trying to clear the confusion.
I get what you’re saying, but “benefit from” just means “is affected positively by” – i.e. the unit is affected positively by the bonus. You’re talking about how the unique unit compares to the closest equivalent generic unit.
Bait that you set yourself. I mean, I don’t want to start an argument or anything, maybe this was just an honest misinterpretation on your part. But from my point of view, it looks like you made up your own meaning of benefit, and then told me and @SMUM15236 that we’re wrong because we used the normal meaning instead of the one you’d made up.
It makes a difference in full tech tree mode, or if someone places a non-Spanish Conquistador in a scenario.
Oh dear. Turns out I was being far too charitable, and this was trolling by a Gargarensis alt account!
What a waste of our time. This loser needs an IP address ban.
He gets one every single time IIRC. He just uses VPNs to get around it every time.
Perhaps we should all lobby the Argentinean government to ban VPNs specifically to stop him.