It doesn’t apply to conqs, the burgundian bonus is better in every way (25% damage vs 15% firerate), Turk +25% HP is better too, as is the +2 range.
Perhaps it should be increased to 25% or something? Without siege engineers spanish BBC are @$$ anyway.
I’d argue the portuguese and italian cheaper gunpowder are better bonuses too honestly…
Conqs already have the ROF of spanish Hand cannoneers too, at 2,9
Well they are still bad in imp so
It is true that 18% attack speed is too small. 25% attack speed is good idea. Conq on the other hand in Imperial Age will be weak even with this 25% attack speed buff, thus I proposed to give 2.4 RoF and 19 attack to Elite Conquistador.
I also angry with new gunpowder civs. They surpassed old gunpowder civs very harshly. 15% speed of Bohemians and 25% attack of Burgundians is a lot stronger than old Spanish 18% attack speed and Turks 25% hp + free chemistry. Old civ are still fine thanks to their other options (Spanish late Imperial trash composition and Turks Hussar and Heavy Cavalry Archer composition) but it seems that Devs afraid of gunpowder units will be OP but they aren’t OP in the game, even buffed gunpowder units like Elite Jan and Conq is useless in the late game.
How do you know if it applies to conqs? Does a different civ with conquistadors fire slower? I always assumed they had the same base fire rate as HC, just the civ bonus sped it up.
I mean, I was never really a huge fan of Turks anyway, and Bohemians are pretty cool, so I personally am not complaining. It feels kind of weird having Burgundians get the gunpowder bonus though. I guess it kind of makes sense, and it can be helpful for a cav civ to counter halbs. It still seems semi-random though.
Burgundians has only HC that can kill FU Halberdier in 2 shots. Their HC perfectly support their Paladin (less hp but fastest and cheapest to get), 25% attack BBC is also beast, I only want stronger Elite Conquistador (2.4 RoF and 19 attack9, Elite Janissary (55 hp) and buff Spanish attack speed bonus to 25%.
I’m not sure what planet you are living on, Free Chemistry is absolutely bonkers and is one of the main qualities that carries an overwise thoroughly mediocre civ. Even when compared to Bohemians (who can also get access to instant gunpowder units in Imp) you are still saving 300F, 200G, completely dodging the university building requirements and still have access to the 25% extra HP and faster creating gunpowder unit bonuses (Whereas Bohemians require a Castle, alongside 300F and 300g for their 15% faster movement).
in AGE3, it shows it doesn’t.
it would be a nice buff to Spanish Conq if it did.
Check it yourself in the Advanced Genie Editor, the bonus only affects Hand Cannoneers, Cannon Galleon, Bombard Cannons and their upgraded variants (hilariously enough this includes the Houfnice as well)
While true, conqs literally attack faster rhen other equivalent gunpowder units already. As in the bonus is literally worked into the unit baseline.
nothing hilarious. though there are ton of inconsistency in the game, the idea is that if spanish monk were to convert a houfnice, it gains the attack speed bonus.
Yes exactly. I’ve always assumed that they had the same base firing rate as Hand Cannoneers, 3.45s. Then the 18% takes effect to make it 3.45 / 1.18 = 2.92. Apparently this is not the case, it’s just hard coded to 2.9 and the civ bonus excluded. Doesn’t really matter either way as far as I can tell, but it wouldn’t be reasonable to make it 2.9 / 1.18 = 2.46.
Bohemians has enough eco bonus (free miner upgrades, -100 wood Monastery, Blacksmith and University, +15 hp 15% faster Villager) to compensate Turks free chemistry (300f 200g saved). Turks also need Castle for Janissary production and +20 hp Sipahi tech. In addition, Bohemians HC and BBC is stronger than Turks Castle Age Janissary, HC and BBC.
Turks strong side comparing to Bohemians is free +1 PA Hussar and 100 hp Cavalry Archer. From point of gunpowder strength, Bohemians is stronger than Turks. Turks has only short-term bonus for gunpowder units while Bohemians has both short term and long term bonuses for gunpowder units.
More HP and more range aren’t long term bonuses?
Yes let’s ignore the free turks light cav line upgrades,
+2 range, extra hp. Both are long term bonuses. 1 is permanent.
+2 range also half short term bonus because when Bohemians side get siege engineer, +2 range decrease to +1 and Houfnice has immense damage output with 20% bonus against buildings from siege engineer + Houfnice also has 25% more damage, total 50% against buildings and 37.5% against other units with more blast radius. 15% faster Houfnice is by far better than Turks +1 range and 25% hp BBC.
25% hp is also for castle age and early Imperial because even this bonus can’t save Hand Cannoneer and Janissary from being garbage unit in late game. However, Bohemians HC for instance outrun (or almost same speed) all infantry unit except Woad Raider, Eagle Warrior, Shotel Warrior, Gbeto.
Comparing houfnice to bbc is kind of cheating anyway, but rest assured, in houfnice v bbc situations I’d still take turk bbc personally. The extra HP is nice, and the +1 range is HUGE. Houfnice is the only unit that can compete, and even then it’s tough. Not to mention 13 range BBT, those are a pain to deal with too.
Yes the Bohemian economic bonuses are superior overall, but in regards to meta gunpowder specific build orders (Fast Imp is the main one that comes to mind) Turks are superior due to faster gold mining in Dark and Feudal Age, and the significant resource savings of Free Chemistry (Food especially).
Except I didn’t bring up Janissaries, Cavalry Archers or Hussars in my original response to you, I was exclusively talking about HC and Chemistry.
Lol what? So the bonuses I already mentioned to you in my previous response, alongside cheaper BT research and the Artillery UT are somehow not “long-term bonuses”? If anything your statement would be more accurate had you swapped the positions of Bohemians and Turks, as outside early access to Chemistry and HC. Bohemians have less immediately relevant bonuses for their gunpowder units than Turks.
Your statement that Bohemian BBC and HC are outright superior to their Turkish counterparts is also highly questionable, the former only surpasses its Turkish equivalents during the lategame after researching Houfnice (900F 500G upgrade) as base Turk BBC have +20 HP, and both the former and latter only gets 15% Faster movement that you have to pay 300F and 300G for at a Castle as opposed to 25% additional health , 25% faster training that is Free. Jannies also benefit from the two previously mentioned bonus and have +1 Range even in their base form
I think Bohemians’ HC with cheaper cost (45 food 50 gold vs 60 food 55 gold) and higher accuracy (75% vs 50%) is stronger than Janissary’s +1 range, +4 hp and better frame delay (it is very annoying feature). As your other topic, Turks gain +2 range BBC, HC and Hussar composition faster than Bohemians Houfnice, HC, Monk and Halberdier. Bohemians has slower transition but stronger. On the other hand, Bohemians has bad cavalry, therefore Turks is stronger than Bohemians in late Imperial Age.