Spies and Stealth

Stealth

With update 13.18214 units in stealth are now revealed when within 2 range of enemy units. There are good reasons for a change like this, but it also drastically reduced the usefulness of the stealth ability.

The positive is that it prevents stealthed units from body blocking units that can’t reveal them and eliminates the issue of being helpless against stealth units even when you know exactly where they are.

The downside is that it greatly diminishes the utility of stealth, especially for melee units. They are revealed before they make contact so they can’t get fully into position for a surprise attack.

To solve this, there should be a delay between when a unit gets into range, and when it is revealed. This delay should be enough that even the slowest stealth unit can walk directly past a single stationary unit and not be revealed (Maybe 3-5 seconds?). Actually being able to sneak past a few units as you walk by is a reasonable ask for a stealth ability.

There should be no delay for buildings that use stealth. It would be pretty obvious that there is a wall there if you walk into it.

Sabotage

There is an ability called Tsetse Sabotage available to the Hausa Emir that lets them greatly slow the production speed of a building. A similar but expanded Sabotage ability for Spies and equivalent units could help them to be more interesting and useful.

Using the Sabotage ability on a building would do the following for a short duration:

  • Slow training speed
  • Slow research speed
  • Slow (or maybe siphon off) resource generation
  • Unlock (Gates)

This ability could come with a number of caveats to moderate its use:

  • Must be in stealth mode to use
    • This makes buildings like Town Centers and Forts immune
    • Stationing any building or unit that reveals stealth nearby will protect from this
  • May fail and reveal the Spy
  • Has a cooldown between uses
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Honestly, I think there should be different levels of stealth: spies should only be revealed by explorers, buildings and villagers.

The rest of the units that gain stealth can have the currently nerfed version of stealth.

I don’t think giving tsetse sabotage to spies is a good idea, they are too easy to spam, it would quickly become a meta thing.

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Units like JPK really suffer from the stealth rework so I think they also need a boost like this.

As far as Tsetse Sabotage goes, it’s so weak it’s essentially useless how it is now so I don’t think it would be a huge deal if Spies got a watered down version that could easily be prevented by an Outpost or Explorer.

I mostly just want Spies to be able to open Gates, so maybe a more limited Infiltration ability would be a better fit.

Well, I think stealth would work a lil better if it was like aoe # ## like StarCraft 2.

Aoe 4 style is based on terrain, woodland, tall grass gives stealth to units inside.

Problem with this approach however is that is dependant on terrain, rather than unit based. And would need to change each map and add the mechanic

StarCraft like, some units use stealth permanent or activated, few units and towers have a “true” vision revealing nearby units.

Sabotage skill and related could be a new game mode or could share cooldown among all spies.

Also gotta mention since some CIVS have unique spies would be nice if Russians had dismounted oprichniks.

That’s exactly how stealth used to work. Now any unit can reveal units in stealth mode if they get close enough, not just the ones that always reveal it.

There’s no way they’re going to change every map for such a niche mechanic.

I think speed of Stelth units and speed in general must be reworked
Some units are so slow and other unrealistic fast like chasqui.

Yup, though the old system had some failures. I think part of the success of SC2 is their clean ui, showing radious and with icons which units can “detect”, besides this:

Halving the speed of stealth units plus the fact stealth is a “stance” making any stealth going for anything near.

Probably, for me best would be old mechanic with tweaked speed and “IF” they add that to maps would enhance the game and give lots of new ways of playing. Though as you said prob not going to happen soon.

Dont know if trigger in a map could archieve that, would be a nice experiment.

Yup, totally agree, some units are way to slow, others too fast.

I wish that element was reverted or at least changed to make stealth a fun element again.

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I was thinking about this the other day, unsure if it required a post, But for spies their stealth should not easily be revealed by units unless there is a hero, tower, fort or TC

Spies/native stealth is very useful in knowing what your opening is doing, essentially RTS games have always been knowing what your opponent is doing

I can understand the abusing of stealth on other units to block path, but maybe different level of stealths could exist?

one where spies are not detectable by units where as other combat units can still be detected?

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They nerfed spies in aoe3, and them implemented the non-nerfed version in aoe4…