Aoe 3 ya tiene sus formas de jugar distintas al 4, que bajo mi opinión son mas divertidas.
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yup but is comparable as aoe 4 which also suffer similar problems.
because more player are coming back to quality aoe games like aoe 3 or aoe 2
after I explain thta the main actually have foundation
Its the same concept but worse in aoe 4. at least different civ didnt felt the same when you age up because some age up mechanics were different.
You’re missing my point. I’m not saying anything about proving Age is the same kind of game as CoH. I’m noting the fact that you can say that different RTS games are different, but at the same time say that other RTS games aren’t different.
The RTS games in question are kind of besides the point, because everyone gets different value out of different parts of a video game. For some people the colour picker is completely irrelevant. For others, it is relevant. You’ve said this yourself enough times - that it being relevant for some doesn’t take something away from other players. It’s just an addition.
So why go to all this length to defend it not being in CoH? What’s the point?
Golden Tyranids “ruined immersion” for some people in DoW II, but the net benefit of the Army Painter was more than not having it at all.
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There is a difference between:
- “The games are not comparable because they are different in ABCDE…”
- “The games are not comparable because they are different. Period.”
I suppose you know the difference.
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There is a thing called convention. You’re like saying it does not exist because it is not absolute. Then nothing exists.
0.1% would expect a color picker in any RPG. 10% in COH. Maybe 70% in AOE. That’s the difference. Then you’ll say “no it is not 100% so it is not a must-have”.
It’s like people would expect a high school graduate to do well in standardized tests for college admission, a college graduate to be able to do at least basic programming to get a job in programming. If one does not, he/she would need a good reason NOT to (not the other way around). For example , when a high school student is exceptionally good at one subject or arts or sports, or a college student is so good at math and algorithms and can pick up programming very quickly.
Same for a game. If a game is released under a series, or a genre, there are basic conventional expectations (again of course not for 100% of the people but the ratio would be higher than another series or genre).
And if you do not you need a good reason NOT to. There is a perfect example right in front of you which is COH. Because it is very different in terms of gameplay and design from any other traditional RTS (AOE or SC).
Now tell me which is the big innovative difference of AOE4 compared to other AOEs, that one needs to sacrifice the color picker for it. I remember you said it was a safe game.
You are free to argue to your college admission committee “nobody ever said a student needs good test score or GPA 100% of the time and the standard of a qualified student differs for different people”. But if you have nothing else exceptional to offer I guess they will just invite you out of the room.
Nobody says you must, always, in 100% of the time satisfy these expectations. But it still exist. You need a good reason NOT to, instead of having people prove to you why you should. Whatever wordplay you use to discredit it.
Because it is not going to any length at all. It’s two simple sentences, compared to the thesis you typically write.
Anyone who has only seen the screenshots, including you, can tell the fundamental, and drastic, difference with gameplay and visual design.
But you choose to pretend not to when it comes to defending AOE4.
Not a surprise to me though.
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I do. I rarely use the second one though, because most things borrow from other things at some point in time.
CoH was brand-new when it was released (the first in a franchise), and the game immediately prior to it by the same developer (Dawn of War) had a colour picker (an Army Painter, in fact).
So while I agree with you generally about convention, you don’t seem to know enough about CoH, or Relic’s games in general, to make this point stick.
Except that CoH is synonymous with how Relic have approached their RTS games, and has been their flagship franchise since 2006 (as much as I like Dawn of War, the sales figures suggest CoH is far more successful).
So CoH isn’t this unique, special child that you want to paint it as. But you’re still missing my point. Why are you trying to make CoH the odd one out? Is it because the colour picker wasn’t a huge thing there? Are you that afraid that an RTS could be successful without one?
I don’t need to, because I’ve done it before. You choose to not remember every time you choose to bring up this dead horse of a topic. It’s on you to prove that a colour picker is so vital that anything currently in the game (prior to this PUP) should have been removed to include it.
The game is safe, hewing rather closely to AoE II instead of the more divisive III (or even Online). What should’ve been sacrificed from the game we had at release to include the colour picker? Or, to move the timeline, what should’ve been sacrificed from the Season One updates and patch?
Saying “it should’ve been in already” is one thing. I’d like to know what you’d have removed to make that happen, assuming everything else about development was the same.
I could say the same of you attacking Age IV, but it’d be as constructive as your comment here 
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This is another difference that you try to blur:
A game style that do not really need a color picker in the eyes of many (COH), but it would not hurt to have one (DOW).
Compared to:
A game style that many people believe should have a color picker.
Like before, I gave a specific, solid, example, which is the obvious difference between COH and AOE.
What is your example?
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Case closed. Relic cannot make a color picker at release. It is so difficult and time consuming that they need to sacrifice something else to implement it.
——G##bM##t, 2022
Relic, see who is personally attacking you now?
I blame whoever made the business decision of the rushy release for the release state I strongly dislike. I can’t imagine you choose to discredit Relic’s capability to defend it.
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Did you even run the Editor? How much time you spend and what you have created?
I can repeat
- it’s bugged ( deep dive to debug errors from logs/game logs )
- lua == purely coding (to code you really need PhD…at least some knowledge)
- even to paint crafted map, you need PhD.
- paint generated maps - cool, for noobs.
And yes, we(as SoTL thinks it has some disadvantages: you need PhD to use it)
Advantages are if you have PhD and spend 10k hours in that tool, you probably will be able to create you own Age of Empires.
- CBA
- City Wars
- Scenario Where you Pick units to fight (only English available)
The most complex Scenario. - vs AI
That’s all. 3.5 scenarios in 2 months. Sorry all PhD modders are working on other jobs… and teenagers
can not use it, cause complexity.
You triggered for nothing.
i did not say, the tool is bad(neither SoTL did)
Tool is complex, and you need to be experienced to use it. Quite simple and obvious statement.
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Okay let me rephrase it. “Traditional RTS” is not accurate. My apologies.
COH is different from AOE as a squad based RTS, same with DOW.
COH is also different from DOW that the units are very realistically colored with minimal player colors. Units and teams are distinguished by icons not their own looks.
But both are very different in terms of how the player sees and interacts with units, compared to a unit based RTS like AOE.
So:
A game like COH and DOW can have a color picker. It does not hurt if it doesn’t. It does not hurt either if it does.
A game like AOE is generally conventionally expected to have a color picker.
As you are such an expert on relic I suppose you know the difference pretty well,
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Yeah, this sure doesn’t seem like what I posted. Ah well, it was worth a shot at a proper discussion, even if it ended like this.
My time is mostly spent comparing it to DoW III’s mod tools, looking up deprecated extensions, and so on. A lot of the current focus in the modding community seems to be on mapmaking, which has never been my strong suit (though I’m learning a lot).
Short answer: yes, I’ve run the editor. I’ve tested changes. But I only have the time to research, and not make something complete (much like DoW III, where I didn’t make a complete mod, but was the first in the community to figure out a few things - like making Elites as buildable units).
I mean, I don’t have a PhD. I don’t even have a masters degree. And I was programming well before I’d even started my bachelor’s degree 
I’m not trying to brag, this is incredibly common in software. Most of my peers were messing about with program code by the age of 10!
I know the tools aren’t perfect (hence: Beta). I know they have both bugs and limitations. Not trying to say they don’t. I’m taking issue with you bigging up how complicated they are, instead of investing this time into making people understand them better. Surely that’s a better use of both of our time?
I never said either of you said the tool was bad, either.
Claiming the Content Editor “needs a PhD” is an unfair framing that puts people off from even trying it. A modding scene is a collaborative effort. The more people that join in, the better everyone does
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So what is the reason that one has to choose a color picker vs anything?
Have you thought of a slight possibility in an alternate universe that you can have both?
Well again I blame whoever made the business decision to put us into this dilemma, if it really exists.
BTW I made this point long ago and I do not bother repeating it: if most other RTS (excluding say COH, in case you went nitpicking again) can be released , fully functional, with sufficient contents, AND a color picker at release, and your RTS which is no different from the others cannot, there must be something wrong.
By saying “wrong” I mean someone caused the current (meaning previous for AOE4) state and there are people who dislike it (not a minority). It could be the result of incompetence of the developers, or workplace politics, or a greedy business decision, or the recession of the economy, or politics, or covid. Whatever. Someone has to be blamed.
So to answer the original question I responded to:
Why don’t people expect a color picker in COH? Because people do not expect a color picker in COH.
Now why DO people expect a color picker in AOE? Because people do expect a color picker in AOE.
Simple as it is. This expectation is real and it usually takes a business genius to shape people’s taste and expectation. I don’t think AOE4 is made and promoted by such a business genius to overthrow people’s expectation for a typical RTS (excluding say COH, in case you went nitpicking again).
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Because things are made with a limit on budget and therefore scope. A lot changes during development (of any game), but for every little thing that goes in, generally, something has to go out. Or a developer has to crunch (or crunch more than they were already doing).
It’s the same in my job, as a software developer. I have tasks allocated over a period of time, normally a number of weeks. These have a deadline (so that they get into the next client release). If something comes in (nomatter how valid, how urgent, etc), I can’t take on the new thing without adjusting what I already have on my plate. I can’t just keep adding things. I have a set amount of hours in the day (as do we all).
That is, at least, an answer. Fair enough. Personally I’m not super-fussed about a colour picker (of all things), but I appreciate others are. I want more fixes and improvements to things like - you could guess this I’m sure - the Content Editor. I could be massively wrong, but I think in the long run robust and mature modding tools will do far more for the game’s longevity than something like a colour picker.
However, a colour picker is a nice thing to give people in the short-term.
By the available statistics we have to us, the people who dislike it are absolutely in a minority. Sorry. This doesn’t mean that they should therefore be ignored, of course, but the core fact that I think some folks are struggling to accept is that this game was received well (as I’ve said a lot of times before). People can blame nostalgia, or excitement, or whatever they want. Games don’t tend to get good ratings on nostalgia alone. DoW III is evidence of that.
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Especially the 9/10 of the initial playerbase I suppose.
Now you are confusing another two different things:
People who dislike the game overall
People who dislike a part of the game
And there are people who cannot live without (insert something) and people who think having (insert the same something) would be better.
It might surprise you that I left a positive review. But there are things I dislike and believe need improvement just like any other game.
AOE2 it somewhat perceived as a holy grail of AOE but there are a lot of things I dislike. Say re-seeding farms (improved in DE), same unit models for everyone (not likely to change forever),
And I dislike how AOE3DE was released despite it being my personal favorite AOE. And there are other things I dislike like the extremely close-up camera (improved later), small map sizes (improved later), the complex map editor (familiar?) and some civs being outdated.
And when I and others voice these expectations there are either people who feel the same way or people who do not care, especially when it comes to basic functions and qol (while game designs are not likely to change).
But seeing people preaching “it is not a problem at all and you need to get used to it” is not a common scene in other parts of the forum.
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Going on the responses in general to this thread and others, I don’t think I am. Plenty of people target the game as a whole with their criticism, and I’m not here to say it’s invalid, just to note that’s what it is.
I’m not knocking Spirit’s skill with AoE either (that’d be pretty silly). Just that as a modder I do take issue with the part about the Content Editor. I don’t assume that because he’s critical of a part that he’s therefore critical of the whole.
Honestly, it does surprise me. Reviews are pretty binary unfortunately (“like” vs. “do not like”), which might have something to do with it, but yeah, surprised. That said, to be frank, it’s the people (and developers) that seem to annoy you the most. Which is why the two of us get into this like we do, perhaps.
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Because writing an appreciation post of what I like about the game is not going to improve it.
And when people write “The game is bad/I hate the game” it is typically followed by “because ABCDE” and that is what they believe should be improved. And when those ABCDE got improved there is at least possibility to bring these people back.
Also even if you ask those who left positive reviews, such as yours truly, “what do you think of the lack of color picker” I believe you will receive a “mixed” response towards this particular aspect.
And it is a freakin color picker. Not a world conquest campaign or a movie mode. No game ever had problems making that** (there are games that did not implement it, such as COH, but it’s not that they cannot).
And of course there are people who simply hate it and they are not the target customers in the first place.
BTW AOE4 is rather unimpressive to me but by no means a bad game. It has potentials (maybe after a year of adding basic functions and another two years of DLCs) but the release state is what I dislike. Right now it is the kind of game I’d play for a while (not a terrible experience) and put back to the shelf.
** Now there is actually a good example with color pickers right in front of you but you are probably not familiar with it. Age of mythology was released without a color picker, but it is because it was the first 3D game that ES ever worked on. I do not think AOE4 falls into this category.
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A very good video from him. It was very fair what he said. A new world map like in Total war for AOE4 would be very cool.
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Their crafted map system is actually quite simple to use tbh. It’s like MS Paint to auto generate most of the work. 
That said, the tools provided are for modding, and the game desperately needs an in-game Scenario/Map Editor for the casuals. The current system is not geared towards those folks.
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exactly , fun fact , im currently making a campaign type scenario , already have 30 hours on it
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bruh. the souce is the game itself. are you still in deny or pasive agressive phase? welp not my problem solving those issues but I guess you need one. back to the answer yup aoe 1 was luckluster but at least faithful to the aoe 1 experience but yeah I agree the intensity of the problem is too high for a faithful camoparison but the problem with aoe 4 is the same only that aoe 4 is on a modern rts scheme which are units getting stuck to envoiroment terrain.
aoe 3 is quality but for og release it “wasnt” for the mayority. aoe 3 is a debatable and for tha the duality
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3 civs dude. jap, indians and chinese. all wonder give unique bonus that are more fun to use than aoe 4 ones. stop being in deny bro.
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