I’ll happily put one together. I’ll do some research and we can test it out.
3 Likes
After reading everyone’s points here I have decided to further increase the price of my Buffed SL to
Cost: 70F 50G (+5 GOLD), TT: 24 seconds (unchanged, 12s for Cumans)
Fire rate: 2.3s (unchanged, 20% slower than Knight)
Steppe Lancer (Cheaper faster Knight with 1 range but less armor)
HP: 80 (up from 60, 100 with bloodlines) (124 HP for Mongols)
Atk: 9
A/PA: 1/1 (up from 0/1) (1/2 for Tatars)
Speed:1.45 vs (Knight’s 1.35)
Elite Steppe Lancer (Cheaper faster Cavalier with 1 range but less armor)
HP: 95 (up from 80, 115 with bloodlines) (144 HP for Mongols)
Atk: 11
A/PA: 2/1 (up from 0/1) (2/2 for Tatars)
Speed:1.45
Imperial Steppe Lancer (Cumans ONLY)
HP: 120 (140 with bloodlines)
Atk: 13
A/PA: 2/2
Speed:1.45
Upgrade : 1500F, 700G and 90% research time of Paladin tech
So basically, my recommendation is almost the same as @Walkop,
except for that I keep their movement speed as it is (as I feel running from camels should be a feature of SL), and the respective bonuses of Mongols and Cumans as they are.
I made the Imp SL upgrade extremely costly and time consuming for keeping those, making sure the Cumans don’t get to spamming stage that easily.
With this, the Cumans would turn into “the Franks of Asia”, relying heavily on SL as Knights and ISL as Paladin, having a food bonus(Feudal TC) and having a UT that creates SL much faster!
As far as my experience goes, I feel they are balanced at 70F 50G considering their slow attack speed.
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Why Buffed Mongol SL will be strong, but not OP:
-
There isn’t much reason for Mongols to make mass use of 124/144HP 1 base PA SL/E.SL over 98HP/117HP 2 base PA Lcav/Hussar, considering the role of cavalry in a mongol army is basically only Meatshield or Raiding.
-
98HP Lcav and 117HP Hussar are much better as Meatshield than Elite SL due to the PA,
while Elite SL is significantly better than Hussar at raiding, but cost as much as 50 Gold apiece.
Gold that the Mangudai are always hungry for, in a Mongol game, especially in Team Games.
- Now, if the Mongols do need to use cavalry for melee fighting purposes, only then is SL the objectively best choice.
However, Mongols missing the most important cavalry upgrade Plate barding and having 20% faster firing CA/Mangs will always remain a Cav archer civ even with the proposed SL buff, and hence most of their battles will be range based, where cavalry only function as Meatshield or Raiding.
And proposed Buffed SL will do everything Knights do in melee battles, only that they do less dps. This is how we can see Knights are not needed anymore once SL is buffed.
Remember, for every SL you create as a Mongol, can mean one less Mangudai for later in game, and Mangudai armies power = the square of the number of Mangudai.
Except they have 1/2 more melee armor, 1 more range, train faster and higher attack. also, 124/144 health vs 98/117. for comparison we know a crossbow takes 33 shots to kill a light cav, and SL would only take 2 less shots.
as for the Cumans.
There is no way pumping out 13 base attack units with 1.67 speed in 9 seconds each is anywhere close to balanced.
also - Post Imperial Death Match = instant GG for Cumans
3 Likes
Except that Meatshield now has 1 Range, attacks quickly, can dance around the best Halbs in the game without getting damaged (and actually snipe the Halbs while at it), and leaves the Cavalier in the dust.
This would make SL + Mangudai the prime combo for Mongols. It would also be incredibly OP.
2 Likes
long cooldown on the attack though.
True, but can be microed back for no Melee damage recieved whatsoever, and the attack animation itself is quite fast.
that would require quite some precision to be fair.
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Actually with Mangudai behind, it’d be negated very fast. No need to micro, any Halb army will be ineffective (they’re ineffective against Mangudai anyway unless backed by SO)
2 Likes
true, wouldn’t even need to micro. the only counter option to this type of army (or SL/CA or Kipchak for Cumans) would involve the camel. oh wait. Cuman SL are faster then Camels…
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except the franks are a one trick pony. they have literally Paladins and that is it.
cumans have if you get what you want…HCA, Kipchacks, ISL, Hussar, Siege Ram and Siege Onager.
also, Chivalry costs 400 wood and 400 gold and only gives a 40% boost to Paladins and Light Cav. Frankish Light Cavalry are not that great.
Steppe Husbandry is 200 food and 300 wood and increases the production speed of Hussar, SL, and CA by 50%.
2 Likes
Then do the forum a favour and don’t comment with prejudice (i.e. first read the head post before commenting)
People will be working on a mod of Steppe Lancers with these stats
To test these changes
Cost: 70F 55G (+10G), TT: 24 seconds (unchanged, 12s for Cumans)
Fire rate: 2.3s (unchanged, 20% slower than Knight)
Steppe Lancer (Cheaper faster Knight with 1 range, but less attack & armor)
HP: 80 (up from 60, 100 with bloodlines) (124 HP for Mongols)
Atk: 9
A/PA: 1/1 (up from 0/1) (1/2 for Tatars)
Speed:1.45 vs (Knight’s 1.35)
Elite Steppe Lancer (Cheaper faster Cavalier with 1 range, but less attack & armor)
HP: 95 (up from 80, 115 with bloodlines) (144 HP for Mongols)
Atk: 11
A/PA: 2/1 (up from 0/1) (2/2 for Tatars)
Speed:1.45
Imperial Steppe Lancer (Cumans ONLY, upgrade cost=1600F 800G, and time = Paladin)
HP: 120 (140 with bloodlines)
Atk: 13
A/PA: 2/2
Speed:1.45
I would want Steppe Husbandry changed if Cumans receive a stronger Steppe Lancer. Production speed to the other units is fine, but maybe something not so overpowered for an Imperial upgraded Steppe Lancer. LOS? Would help with raiding, ostensibly the true specialty of the unit, and not give too a direct edge in fights
Just a note, Steppe Husbandry decreases training time by 50%, so it’s an increase of 100%.
It used to be an 80% decrease, so it was a 400% increase and was faster than Perfusion by a longshot.
1 Like
i am well aware of the change.
For sure. I just mentioned it cause you said it increases speed by 50%; which implies 2 stables is 3. It’s actually 2 stables is 4.
Steppe Lancer buff should happen this patch. It would be best if Knights from those civs were removed altoghether though…
1 Like
No. It would be very surprising if developers would do this, because this idea has not found support from majority.
4 Likes
