Central Asian civilizations like Mongols, Tatars, and Cumans have Steppe Lancers already.
The Turks and Huns are still missing the Steppe Lancers.
Should the Turks and Huns have gotten Lancers?
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I agree for 20 chars
Huns are a strange civilisation. They are an Ancient civilisation that we have very little good historical knowledge off (we don’t even know what language they spoke) but for some reason ingame they have Pladins, which represent late medieval heavy cavalry.
From a historical standpoint most things about this civilisation are wrong.
Not sure if Steppe Lancers would be used by Hun players all that much. They also already have Tarkans at the Stable.
For the Turks its maybe more of a balance concern or maybe to keep the civilisations that have Steppe Lancers more unique.
Would they get the +1 pierce armour that the Scout line also gets?
Would make them a little worse then Tatar Steppe Lancers that also get +1 melee armour but they need to research a technology for that.
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You never stop until all civs including americans have them :d
But I agree with Turks funnily. They need Steppe Lancers and Genitour as replacement for their else lacking techtree
If looking at history civis such as bulgarians slavs lithuanians magyars persians maybe even saracens should have them.
What is the Steppe Lancer?
It’s a unit from the Central Eurasian Steppe.
The Elite version looks very Cuman with it’s face mask but also Central Asian horse armour design.
So it would make sense for other Steppe civilisations from the same area too.
That includes the Turks for sure.
The Eastern European civilisations don’t really fit, some might have originated in Central Asia like Magyars or Bulgarians but does it really fir for them? Both already have melee cavalry unique units.
Saracenes are too far away from Central Asia.
Persians would make more sense.
I personally feel the game misses a more generic Medium Cavalry unit so not every civilisation has to use Knight or Scout line cavalry.
Steppe Lancers are also light cavalry though.
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Mamlukes are stepp people also islamic armies had turks fighting for them.
For eastern europe many nations had stepp people as mercenaries.
Then they already have a unit for that.
But should that be the same unit?
Do their cavalry archers already fill that role?
That’s why I think it would be nice to have a more generic medium cavalry.
Yes as its called a stepp lancer.
CA are just ranged cavalry nothing stepp related to them.If it did why do celts or britons have them?
But do they look like stepp warriors visually?
This game is not history simulator. Alson Turks covering Seljuks, ottomans etc and they were not nomatic states. Huns can get steppe lancer but they will not make sense for them.
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Magyars and Bulgarians have good CA, Britons and Celts have very bad ones that you will basically never see.
They look out of place for those civilisations the same way Knights are out of place in Asia.
No they are the worst stereotypical in the game by far.
This argument is stupid.
Without history this would be a fantasy game.
I think every aspect should always consider historical accuracy and weight it with balance, fun and of course how cool/iconic something is.
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@Skadidesu This game is a history based game not a history simulator game. It does not have to include historic accuracy.
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Yes but don’t use that as an argument against small changes people want to do.
If someone actually want’s to completely change the whole balance of the game for accuracy, yes then tell them that that’s not possible.
Don’t just shoot down every thread in the forum that isn’t purely about balance with this argument every time.
And please please don’t ever tell people to play Total War instead. That’s a totally different game.
6 Likes
Shouldn’t Lithuanians also get steppe lancers?
Turks and Huns should get stepp lancers maybe. It would be historically fitting. But probably in cost of losing something else for balance reasons.
Turks having Lancers along side with free elite upgrade and +1 PA could be interesting but they should lose Knight line complately.
Huns with cheaper step lancers would be nice after maraduers upgrade is achieved.
Its not stupid, its the one and only possible counter argument to those proposals; since the only point in favour is “it would be historicially accurate”, you can’t really make another counter argument than “aoe isnt a history simulator”.
History in games is used to communicate mechanics (you KNOW an archer is a ranged unit, no need to check) and for marketing. Aoe2 has enough of that to work, but it is extremly far away from beeing accurate.
Not that’s wrong.
If someone wants to make something more historically accurate then the counter is:
It’s not balanced.
or
It’s not fun to play.
Because if you just take the argument that it doesn’t have to be historical then you completely devalue everything about the game basically.
AoE2 is not a fantasy game. It’s a historic game.
When I play a certain civilisation I want to feel like I play that civilisation and not a random set of features where someone put a label on top.
I agree that things should not be enforced because they are historically accurate, that would ruin the game.
But if something historically accurate does not ruin balance or the fun of the gameplay then why not add it?
If Steppe Lancers for Turks are balanced then there is no reason to not add them.
So we should talk about if it’s balanced.
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On its own, this doesn’t work as an argument against anything. Historical accuracy is one of the features taken into account in civ designs, and one that at least some players care about. If someone makes a suggestion that would increase the historical accuracy of a civ, to argue against that you need to explain why it would negatively affect some other feature of the civ design, e.g. balance, how fun it is to play, etc.
This is even worse as an argument. No one is claiming that AoE2 is, or should be, a history simulator; giving Huns and Turks Steppe Lancers would not make it into one.
I’ll admit I’m no balance expert, but I think Steppe Lancers for Turks would actually improve their balance. As I understand it, Steppe Lancers are mostly useful on open maps, where Turks currently struggle. On the other hand, Steppe Lancers are useful in early Castle Age, and I’m not convinced that’s when Turks need help.
2 Likes
Yeah let’s buff civs that don’t need buffs.
Adding a new unit could be combined with a nerve too.
Like Turks lose free Scout Line techs but instead get a 50% discount and faster research on Scout Line and Elite Steppe Lancer upgrade.