Do you remember the time, when we fell in… I mean when HRE was getting 900 gpm for three relics and all that? Yeah, HRE was diarrheaing gold left and right. Times have changed and HRE have a much worse passive income, which - as always - is not guranteed, since a lot of civs have better relic gather mechanics or better tempo than HRE. So far so good.
What hasn’t changed, however, aside from a +1 dmg and +5 hp buff over 4+ years, is the Landsknecht. You pay 60 food and 100 gold for a unit that fully upgraded has 115 hp and 3/3 armor. It does not display the way Landsknechte fought. It does not display the way how they were used. It does not explain at all why these suicidal dudes would be mercenaries. And worst of all, I think it’s a really bad unit for HRE. It’s simply outdated. It has never been a cost efficient unit, but it’s giving you less and less with every nerf to gold generation and with every other change to the game. They can be somewhat convincing in battles depending on the enemy comp, but their roi will still be unsatisfyingly low despite of their unlikely potential.
Landsknechte are a niche unit and I hate building them, because I feel betrayed having spent so many res on a unit that dies to everything and is by far the worst hp melee unit in the game, despite being one of the most expensive ones. I’d even argue that one Onna-Bugeisha gives you more than one Landsknecht, if you consider a capable opponent that doesn’t just a click all his spears into Landsknechte. And even then… Landsknechte would have only killed spears.
This unit doesn’t make sense. And I also rarely see them anymore. Ever. You are better off spending your gold elsewhere instead of on a Landsknecht. I honestly don’t see a reason to build them, unless you wanna sneak some of them into the enemy’s worker lines. Their best use lies in raiding (very expensive, potentially achieving nothing) or with the Byzantines, who (aside from the fact they shouldn’t even have access to them) do not pay them with gold, which makes them a nice and rather unexpected addition to the versatile Byz army. But as HRE you would only build them, if you are very rich. And even then it’s more of a meme than a strong tactic, since all this unit does is run in and die. Often without even swinging once. In my opinion it is the worst and most useless unique unit in the game (for a civ that barely has UUs). It costs too much for what it does or does too little for what it costs. Take your pick.
And as I said: I also really don’t like how they are designed. So this is not just about boosting their stats, but about making them a useful, interesting and fun unit that can actually be a focus for the HRE to build their army around.
THIS IS A SUGGESTION TO REWORK THE LK TO BE A MORE FUN UNIT THAT AT THE SAME TIME IS HISTORICALLY ACCURATE AND INTERESTING TO PLAY WITH
The following numbers are mainly examples for a better visualization of the rework I have in mind for them. I still tried to make them somewhat reasonable, but the balancing would probably need to be figured out. So my suggestion is less about the numbers and much more about the mechanics.
A short historical overview: Landsknechte became one of the most wanted mercenaries for European kings and especially German kings starting in the 15th century. The time of the heavily armored knight that dominated the battle field was ending. Mobile infantry lines with long weapons (polearms) were the go to. And the most successful ones were the German Landsknechte and the Swiss Reisläufer, who had a real feud between each other about who is the better soldier. So Landsknechte mainly fought with polearms and used their range to control the opponents. But the real success came in conjunction with Flamberg/Bidenhänder/Greatsword using Landsknechte or Doppelsöldner. Doppelsöldner were Landsknechte or Reisläufer, who were seasoned and experienced despite the fact that they dared what nobody else would. They were the first to storm in and cleave into the enemy lines to break their structure and create chaos, which then was exploited by the halberd or polearm wielders. They also were paid double the money, hence the name “Doppelsöldner” which literally means “Mercenary that receives double the pay”. But you could only be a Doppelsöldner if you survived a few battles. So, Doppelsöldner were wealthier than the average Landsknecht and that is why they had better gear and also used heavy armor on the most vital areas like legs, chest and sometimes also arms. But there was no rule to it, Landsknechte and Doppelsöldner were responsible for their own gear, which is why it eventually came down to personal preferences when gearing up for battle. And that is also why they were so flamboyantly fashionable.
So we actually have two basic types of Landsknechte to choose from: The greatsword sweepers and the polearm pokers.
Firstly: The Landsknecht becomes an imperial age only unit. It is a Renaissance soldier that shouldn’t be available in castle age.
Secondly: The Landsknecht gets split in two: Landsknechte and Doppelsöldner
Thirdly: You wan to use both Landsknecht units in conjunction, because that’s where they shine. On their own they are either a more expensive spearman or a low dmg aoe MAA. But together they boost each other via reciprocal synergies and thus can potentially improve the whole army.
The units (Elite stats (since there are no castle stats) without EAT and BS upgrades):
- Doppelsöldner: Heavily armored, 175 hp, 4/4 armor, 1.19 speed → weaker than a basic MAA, but 5% faster // Damage: Around 40%~50% less than the old Landsknecht, but still deals AoE dmg. Maybe they get an alternative mode to switch to a Katzbalger, so they’d become single target with slightly less power than a basic MAA → Don’t know if necessary, but it’d give them a nice extra touch in a historcially accurate fashion. Attackspeed: 1.375 . Costs: 70 food and 80 gold.
Special: The Doppelsöldner aoe applies a stackable debuff to the units it hits that increases dmg taken by 5% for 10 seconds. There can be a max stack of 3 (5%/10%/15%) with a duration of 10/15/20 seconds. So the point of Doppelsöldners is to be sprinkled in next to MAA/spears to debuff the enemy units (they cause chaos), but without being exceptional dmg dealers themselves. So you could mass them blindly, but it wouldn’t be the most effective way to use them and is therefore not recommended.
- Landsknecht: Lightly armored, 150 hp, 2/2 armor OR the passive ability to have a 10-15% chance to avoid dmg to compliment their focus on being nimble at the expensive of armor, 1.25 speed → same as spearmen // Damage: 12 with a bonus of +10 vs cavalry, higher attack range so they can attack from the second row just behind DS and MAA. They cannot brace . Attackspeed: 1.875. Costs: 70 food and 40 gold (half of DS).
Special: The Landsknecht deals +2/+4/+6 dmg per Doppelsöldner debuff and reduces the target’s movement speed by -5%/-10%/-15% for the remainder of the debuff duration.
Effect: Doppelsöldner or Landsknechte on their own are just more expensive and not necessarily better MAA or Spearmen. There is no real point to build one without the other. But when combined, you increase the second row dmg of Landsknechte and reduce the movement speed of the enemy unit depending on the number of DS debuff stacks and their duration. The dream comp would be a few Doppelsöldner, a bunch of MAA and/or Spearmen and a good amount of Landsknechte. The counter would mainly be killing the Doppelsöldner, since without Doppelsöldner the Landsknechte are not cost efficient anymore.
That way you want to build your army around the core of Landsknechte/DS without them being super units. They are strong in fromations as they should be, but weak when scattered.
HRE would lose their unique unit in castle age, but I don’t think it would really matter since you can’t afford Landsknechte in castle rn anyway. It’s also not the best way to spend your gold. But the gain would be an accurate display of Landsknecht army tactics embedded into the right time period with synergies and a gameplay that goes beyond just blindly suiciding an expensive unit for minimum gain.
That’s my idea for a Landsknecht rework. The numbers are just examples, it’s mainly about the synergizing mechanics. There are probably also other ways to achieve a better realization of the Landsknecht, but as long as the Landsknecht gets a rework that turns his weird and cost inefficient glascannon design into something substantial, I am all for it. This unit needs a rework.
Current Cost vs. Value
How Could the Landsknecht Be Improved?
Example Rework Proposal:
1. The Glass Cannon Landsknecht
Strengths:
Weaknesses:
Implementation:
Usage:
2. The Cleave Brawler Landsknecht
Comparison Table
Design Concept:
Unique Mechanic — “Rage Threshold”
Balance Levers
Summary: Hybrid Landsknecht