Suggestion for Saracens

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
21

I don’t think sugestion one is good because Sarracen are THE “knight only” civ. Suggestion 3 would cause a different problem, because sure they can’t threaten buildings anymore but the hunting boost could be combo’d with the market for some insane rushes.

I wouldn’t mind suggestion 2, but it would bring them back to their pre DE state :sweat_smile:

I think a compromise could be to make them inflict bonus damage against pallisades only. This way they would still have an advantage compared to archers from other civs, but they won’t be able to threaten production buildings and the opponent can still wall them out if they really commit to spam houses.

Maybe the OG bonus of anti-building CA was a weird way to represent that. But the OG dev also *really * wanted the Sarracen to be a camel civ, wtf are their mamelukes doing on a camel 11

Tbh it sounds more accurate than the Goth loom bonus.

1 Like
22

based on your post history almost everything is broken then
yeah saracens so broken, being a mid a tier civilization.

that sick UT just got nerfed as is, and Saracens aren’t busted despite that “Sick bonus”. so you want to nerf their archer bonuses? be ready to give them at least 2 GOOD bonuses in their place to make up for it.

that doesn’t take much.

23

This is completely useless. Already any civ with any archers can break pallisades walls

24

Options 1,3 looks good to me but i prefer 3

25

they would need more then just 3, you’re severely nerfing pretty much their only offensive option, and in return you want to give them a little bit more food?

26

Then give them 1 and 3 together

27

Giving a dark age eco bonus to a civ that can already get crazy castle age times using the market, doesn’t seem a good idea to me.

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28

The civs with a dark age bonus are: aztecs, britons, celts, chinese, franks, goths, huns, incas, italians, japs, koreans, kmers, lithuanians, mayans, malians, mongols, persians, tartars and turks.

So 19 civs out of 37, about half of them, so it’s not something that all civs should have.

After that, I would argue that just an handful of those are actually dark age bonus that are worth considering because they are strong, that are: aztecs, britons, celts, chinese, franks, huns, mayans, mongols and malians.

So about 9 out of 37 civs.

That being said, I know that it may be stressful to play against saracens, but I actually like that one civ out of 37 can actually pressure an opponent even when fully walled.

Still, I get that killing buildings can be too much.

So maybe let them keep their team bonus (archers +2 vs all buildings) but their standards bonus should be transformed into:

  • archers have +1 atk vs walls per age

That way you can pressure the enemy by being able to break into the enemy base and raid, but you won’t be able to destroy buildings like houses, barracks or tower.

As for the market bonus it’s not bad at all, it’s good. Problem is that it’s really difficult to use, that’s why many players can’t use it to its full potential.

29

So what do you see? Keep their missiles and the Obsidian missiles is fine?

30

Actually your suggestion here became a nerf, full nerf rather than giving them any advantage

31

The question is, in how much time? For any civ, it will take a long time to bring it down and the opponent will have time to lay a house foundation behind. Of course your archers can shoot the villager so that it can’t finish the house, but the foundation will still slow them down. Sarracen on the other hand have no such issue and can enter before this happen, so even if their bonus was limited to palissades they would have an advantage.

32

Not really, more of an adjustment.

The thing that player hate of the saracens bonus is that their archers destroy the main buildings.

But for a good player is enough to use their market bonus into an archer rush.

Then it’s enaugh that you break into an enemy base and harass vills. For that a bonus for walls it’s enaugh.

Then the +2 vs all buildings is something that help you to kill evn the main building, but at a balance pace.

The main strategy of the saracens is still completely useful.

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33

Maybe just pallisades and not all walls? Ig it would avoid some annoyance on Arena and the likes.

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34

How about not changing Saracens into another boring Boom civ?

They are an aggressive civ that has to raid to compete, which is great for gameplay.
A Dark Age eco bonus + removing their Archer bonus only says: “I want us both to boom before fighting, in every matchup”.

Learn to be defensive, or to Rush yourself.

2 Likes
35

For stone wall +3/4/5 isn’t really a treat, unless you have a huge number of archers. It’s even less of a treat if the civ have fortified walls.

Now since the video the bonus have been adjusted, but the principle is sti the same. Against stone walls you need a lot of xbows, and if your enemy let you mass that many units, he onestly deserve to have their walls breached by archers.

36

Research masonry -> profit. Also ,having an actual army protecting your buildings might help. Try it one day instead of crying on the forum.

37

Masonry isn’t available in feudal age, and it doesn’t protect from bonus damage that archers receive from the Saracen bonus.

39

Well actually none of these options avoid them to be aggressive and their market will remain the same. What make them aggressive or unique is not their archers but their market

40

No, it is the Siege Archers, by A LOT!

41

I think the only aspect unbalanced with attack bonus vs buildings is the damage against watch tower in Feudal.
8 archers destroy a watch tower too quickly and a WT it is huge invest in Feudal Age, it affects your Castle age considerably.
Just removing stone buildings from the bonus I think is ok.
Or shift the +1 to Castle age.