[suggestion] Horses and Hawks

In another Thread we had a discussion about Walls and how they sometimes can feel like slowing down the pace of the game. I don’t want to remove walls as I think for beginners and slower players there is no other way to protect the eco from raids. But I want to propose an Idea which could make them possibly unnecessary at higher elos.

The basic Idea is to give people more tools to get vision. But not in a way it destroys current gameplay. Especially sneak villagers should still be a thing.

The Idea is, to make it possible to train Horses and Hawks in stables or barracks (if you are meso). But they are limited and each new one costs more and more time to train. You also can’t micro them. Instead when you train them you can click a point on the map where they will spawn and automatically move around. They can be killed quite easily by the enemy, but will respawn after some time.

If you use that tool wisely you could track if the opponents moves out and set up a defense, but the tools downt allow to get vision of the whole map, so you usually won’t spot units that already sneaked out. This way we could get a nice tool that can increase the pace of higher ranked games without destroying strategy.

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We already have units called Scout Cavalry and Eagle Scout that fill this exact role
This feels way too redundant and convoluted


They need too much attention and investment for the vision they can provide. That’s the rasoning.
Do you ever see a player making 8 light cav in castle running individually around an enemy base, trying to spot if he is moving out?
And that’s the kind of vision you need for a higher paced game with more military interaction between the players.

But anyways, seems nobody understand the idea behind it, it wouldn’t put me in a existential crisis if it’s left how it is, so screw it. Was just an idea how higher ranked games can be higher paced with more interaction.

I’d like horses to be able to be made into scouts by mounting villagers or something

Geez I hoped no one would take the bait but here we are. After +1 range scout, or nerfing castle age, now let’s suggest flying auto scout. As long as it’s not a nerf to even foundations anything goes.

I said it’s ok if nobody understands what I’m talking about. It’s absolutely bs to bully here.
I just wanted to make a nice respond and everything could have been fine. Sometimes some people seem to just need to hit on somebody I think.

But actually no, it’s not the way I want it to work. I wanted to give a solution for the problem posed that walls tend to slow down action at higher levels of game in an unnecessary manner, if there would be enough potential information to prepar a defence against incoming raids in time.

But ok, I just made the suggestion and it’s fine if nobody agrees to see what i want to achieve with it. I’m totally fine with it.


I don’t think anyone is bullying you, this is a very weird suggestion that seems pretty redundant (at least how I understood it) so I don’t know why would you expect people to agree with it

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The reason is that the current options to get vision are too costly in attention and cost in the midgame to be effectively used. Walling is easier and cheaper and provides just enough protections to make a reasonable defence for an incoming raid.
So, it should provide a less costly alternative for walling. But it also needs to be done more smartly as you have to chose wisely where you want to get vision as you can’t have it everywhere.

This would allow higher pace of the game at higher levels of play.

But why do I have to repeat myself? I think it’s easy to understand if you are willing to, but maybe not necessarily if you just want to disagree.

And I’m fine with that. Again, it’s just an idea. It’s totally fine if it’s ignored. But these passive-agressive claims like

Are in fact a form of bullying, and I don’t like that. It’s totally unnecessary.

I don’t need anybody to agree with me, I just don’t like hypocrits, who project their willing of disagreement on me.

I think you are expecting people to bully you and are reading way too much into the comments, I wasn’t being passive aggressive, or at least I didn’t mean to.
But I still don’t see how this is different from sending scout-line units to scout the map, that is already a viable and not that expensive way to explore the map, and in the endgame you can even scout with vills building outposts

Yeah it’s not about scouting, it’s about getting vision. Scouts/light cav are too costly in the midgame and outposts are more something for lategame.

Just forget about it, ok. It was an idea, nobody originally responded and I was fine with it. I don’t need any of my ideas to be responded to or even in the game, so…

I mean, that’s how it should work or? creative ideas sometimes are just weird for people if they are “too” creative, also for me if I read some from others.
If I don’t see any reason to respond I don’t make a respond and people usually understand that their idea was maybe a bit too extraordinary. And everybody can continue.

This kind of sentence in a bar and you would go home with a black eye in the best case. Just telling you.

I dont really like flying units and/or auto reviving units, that is too disturbing for me.

Imo mid elo players already are able to pay a lot of attention to scouting and react accordingly. That is similar to how high elo players do not need auto scout to make their scout moving.

Actually imo if you pay attention to the scores, you can usually know what your enemy is doing behind the walls as well.

For suggesting high paced games I think open maps are doing a great job, at least in tournament scenes. I think EW are fairly fast paced as well.

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I’m just saying nobody was bullying you, we were criticizing your idea, never personally attacking you, no need to get so defensive and play the victim as if people insulted you or something like that…
Also wtf is that vague bar threat, like, what did I do to you besides saying your suggestion was kinda ridiculous lmao

No, you are hypocrit, and now you try to take the victims role, it’s hilarious.
I closed this case like 3 times in a way nobody has to accuse another, everybody can go ahead, and you insist in making it personal. What is wrong with you?

Nope, you didn’t say that. And I calmfully answered all critics or whatever questions to the topic and why I suggested it.
I only criticised specific ad personam arguments. And so I will continue.

If you accuse me of something you must live with me countering you. And don’t play the victims role now, that’s absolutely hilarious…

You wanted to disagree with me in a personal manner, don’t blame me if you are not happy how it let you look like.

Idk man, I still think you are reading way too much into my comments and interpreting in the wrong way. I’m not playing the victim in that comment, I just found the bar comment funny, chill.
I’m sorry if you interpreted the comments as personal attacks or anything like that, I just tough your idea was kinda funny, but my intention was never to disrespect you.

This seems like a cool idea.

So this unit becomes infinite? wont that be like having a scout that will explore forever?

I dont think its possible to increase cost with time,also if the dead unit auto respawns why would you need to train more? you just train the max amount at once and set them on different corners of the map and they scout forever right?

They would only move locally… Not scout. I first thought about just giving stationary vision, but I had no idea how this could be represented. I mean a free outpost that you can place anywhere on the map sounds a bit weird.

The idea is to spot if the opponent moves out while you try to push.

But I also considered some consequences and I don’t think it will work like this properly. I think the whole thing is a bit more complicated.