and he was proven wrong on it twice after he lost with saracens. And he also said Boyar would be too strong after pierce buff and become one of the best UUs right now and that never happened. Like the guy is obviously great at this game but that doesn’t mean everything he says should be taken like gospel
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remember when Hera said plumes were trash?
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@MrCrispyButt earlier when I suggested you try the castle drop to learn how to counter it, you said that it’s not an issue of the castle drop being too strong, because you can beat it or sometimes you lose. So you made the argument that it’s an issue of it not being fun. Is that still your argument? That the issue is it isn’t fun? You never answered me.
@RoomOfTheEvil yesterday we were discussing the 13 min arena castle drop. I was making the point that it can only be effective to execute that build on arena. I asked if you feel that castle drops in general are OP, do you?
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Yes, as I wrote in my first post, I’m not saying that it is unbeatable. I am saying that it prematurely ends games that were good games, and it isn’t fun to play against, win or lose. For example, the most recent game the guy tried to build a castle in my base and by luck I happened to notice it in time, I stopped it and killed 10 of his villagers, after which he typed gg. If the castle had gone up, it would have been big problems for me. If it wasnt such a strong ‘strategy’, the guy wouldn’t have tried it, and would have made actual units to counter mine, and we could have kept playing.
By coincidence, Hera just posted a video of him doing the exact thing this thread is about. (By the way, he was able to get it up despite Tatoh having full knowledge that he was trying to build it from the very start). It caused the game to end abruptly. By nerfing the castle foundation or making villagers have a bonus against the foundation, it would become less viable and easier to stop with nearby villagers. Thus, people would stop doing it. Its the same as tower rushes. Few people like to play versus towers. People like to play against other units, not buildings. I don’t miss facing tower rushes AT ALL, and I’m sure others feel the same. I’m very happy they nerfed that ‘strategy’.
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So basically you want to play like how AI does, without any kind of out of box “cheese strategy”? Not like a human that wants to play to win
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so do scout rushes, failed early aggression, unscouted attacks, etc
according to you.
how is it ONLY LUCK that you noticed an opponent building a castle IN YOUR BASE?
which proves our point. the strategy is extremely all in. your opponent knew that going in and tried it anyway. when it didn’t work, he quit.
depends where it was dropped. usually they deny maybe 1 or 2 resources and nothing more. rebuild away from it. your opponent just invested 10 workers worth of time marching across and building it, not to mention the time to mine the resources, he ain’t got anything behind it.
it’s not that strong of a strategy at all, you just played badly. there is no reason you should be “JUST BARELY” noticing a CASTLE GOING UP IN YOUR BASE. as for him making units that counter yours, thats the nature of the game. you scout what your opponent is building and build something that works against it.
why does the strategy need to be less viable? its not OP at all, and its easily countered.
yes, lets take options that aren’t broken out of the game. tower rushes weren’t nerfed to remove options . they were nerfed because they were too strong, and to give them better counter play. castle drop has plenty of counter play.
few people like to play against early aggression strategies in general, should we nerf them all to the ground?
and other people like to think outside the box and do different things, like castle drops.
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Fair enough, I respect your opinion, personally I do find it a fun aspect of the game, so I don’t want to see it nerfed. We will have to agree to disagree. Good luck in your games!
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I don’t think anyone is attacking them because they don’t like them. They are criticising them because of how consistently successful they can be compared with the very low levels of thought and effort required to execute them.
It is obvious to everyone that you can just copy a seemingly successful strategy, but do you honestly feel good about winning when you win so cheaply? It doesn’t bother me to build castles offensively, defensively, everywhere really, since they are so powerful, but that to me seems boring. To each their own I guess.
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To the OP: sounds like black forest is for you.
Does it feel weird to complain that one strategic decision or another doesn’t yield the fun game YOU envisioned in a MULTIPLAYER environment?
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I don’t feel they are OP but they are too rewarding.
It is risky, but it isn’t riskier than Tower rush (a bit harder to pull off on good level) and tower rush actually demands you to micro.
what? its 650 stone and requires 5-10 villagers to pull off. you literally set your eco back massively to do it. and its very easily denied. especially that 13 minute one you were talking about.
its extremely risky. most people who fail it GG right away.
plz show me such a guide ??
ONe of the fastes if not the fastest FC ever is that one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fML7KHgJdtg
and it around min 11 with mongols on BF as pocket in a TG with lot of extra Boars. Also no way you could be that fast up and get enough stonde for a castle as well as 10 vils forward to drop it 
Mbl only has enough eco for adding 1 TC and only thx to lots of extra boars so he dosent need any farms.
Even on Arena the castle drop map to boost you wont see a froward castle before min 14-15 as you need a shit ton of res for it.
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The game in question he was referring to is shown in this post.
it was done. against the AI. on Arena.
and he somehow thinks that means it will actually work against players.
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7 So he assumes a all in strat that only Franks with their cheap castle can even dream to use with 5-6 vils and zero protection is ever gonna work against a player who just needs like 2 units to stop that XD
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you pretty much hit the nail on the head.
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When you were scouting your opponent’s base Did you not check to see if he was taking stone? Anything more than 1-2 villagers on stone before castle age should be a big red flag to you. People often scout to see what the enemy has built instead of scouting to see what the enemy WILL build.
An early castle, let alone a forward castle will usually mean much delayed TCs in castles age, all you have to do is back up your villagers (After all castles cant chase you) and either invest in military (and rams) or push for a castle of your own and Imperial.
Forward castles were already nerfed way back in Age of kings… the game launched with this thing called a Trebuchet.
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If i read this thread, it seems like the only reason to nerf castles is ‘It is no fun’ by MrCrispyButt. I cant take that reason seriously as reason to nerf a certain strat. I also see a 13 min. castle drop as Franks. A player can easily stop that castle by just making a tower if they dont have military. Seems like executed against the AI or a noob.
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Interesting, I agree they have high reward, but I also think the risk is fairly high. How many times have DauT cost players the game? Personally I think if they arent OP dont nerf. But I guess it’s up to the devs if the strat is too far out of the realm of game design. Like when they nerfed the tower rush.
Well, people play this game for fun. I can’t think of a better reason to adjust something than if it isn’t fun. It actually really bugs me, a lot, because I feel it is an exploit, a cheap easy dishonorable tactic to get an undeserved win at any cost instead of using units and superior strategy. Almost like typing in a cheat code. (This is not a personal attack, just an opinion on forward castle dropping, no offense to anyone intended, if some was taken, I apologize).
It was serious and happened enough that I became disgusted and started playing AOE3, where they disallow forward castles, however the player base was too small so I came back. So, I am bringing it up for discussion.
Obviously if its just me, and everyone else loves castle drops and thinks the reward is equal with the risk, then don’t nerf foward castle being built foundations (notice I didn’t say ‘remove’ I said ‘nerf’ because it is too easy to execute for too high a reward as someone else already mentioned) .
Most forward castles are "get out of my game castle"s anyways…
So they are already superior to you
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