without knowing the dmg units do to walls in AOE4 its kind of hard to understand this comparison.
That is true. I donât have a strong opinion on the wall HP debate. I see both sides, go back to the original HP and make wall more viable or leave them as it with lower HP as not to reward walling a camping in your base to much.
It also came to my attention , there is a group that always makes accusations against those who build walls in this game , itâs unfun , developers, please do not take this group into account. They donât enjoy fun game , the walls are really weak and are being destroyed by the opponent before.
ahhh, interestingly it was the same pace it sounds like for how it progressed in aoe2
and it was done steadily- a bit of less hp early on, less scaling, increased costs, slowly over like 1 year. really allowed good input from high to low level to find a generally acceptable level. ofc not everyone can be pleased, but you rarely see walling is killing the game XDXDXD threads there anymore (always gonna be that one dude who only plays BF as huns or something) so it would be a relative example of sucess on making walls more dynamic imho
Tbh I always feel unfun watching Revnak (the OP of this thread) and juliank playing supremacy, they will make 10 layers of walls and send heavy fortification, they are good players, but still walling makes the game unenjoyable to watch, it is like turning supremacy into treaty which is so boring. Other players like aizamk also plays at high level but uses a variety of fun strats instead of walling.
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Sorta feels like everyone glossed over the solution I gave.
This is, by far, the most important part. If you increase the footprint of the wall, it becomes impossible to stack walls super thick because they wonât be able to be built within X units of each other.
While they could likely connect perpendicular at pillars, this still wouldnât be enough to mimic the caked walls that exist now. Forcing walls to have a distance of 7 units between them on a parallel level would make them easier to balance.
Add another wall upgrade in Imperial Age and let both Bastion and this upgrade increase the size of walls to fill a little more of the footprint they originally take up.
Not only would this forcibly reduce the amount of walls possible, but it would allow for some buffs to walls altogether.
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Propongo que se mantenga tal cual pero que gane una protecciĂłn contra antorchas y flechas con la mejora de bastiĂłn. Se supone que un muro solido no se incendia. Para la edad en la que se desarrolla bastiones ya se cuenta con armas de asedio.
TBH, I totally did gloss over this.
I think thatâs a sensible approach (dev work aside)
I do however think that would further justify having wooden Palisade and stone Bastion walls as seperate (traditional!) entities, as increasing a wallâs footprint when youâve already Palisades close to existing buidings and then upgrading them to something that increases their footprint will break things.
Having your cardboard Palisades as your initial cheap and cheeful defence would still serve a purpose if time and money is not on your side. Bastion walls would be the slower/more expensive-to-build defences that would far, far harder to layer up.
No, the goal is to increase the size of the footprint of the base walls to a size that will accommodate their final size. Itâll look a little spacy early on, but Iâd also argue that you generally want a fair bit of room around your walls in the early game anyway.
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You arenât going to fix wall layering with that. Nobody in their right mind puts 2 walls in close proximity to one another, instead they leave some space to put troops between 2 layers of walls. Increasing footprint will only make that space bigger, but doesnât solve the problem of layering walls. Which is that they are almost impossible to get though if they are even slightly defended. Which ironically itâs actually realistic.
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A distance of 7 is just over half the distance a musketeer can fire. On both sides of the wall, thatâs about twice the distance that most heavy-wall spammers layer their ways, and means that, if standing at the foot of one wall, your average horse gun will be able to reach 3-4 layers of walls total within its range.
Thatâs a significant drop from the 10-15 layers of walls you can normally see in that same distance as walls work now.
The problem here is that 10-15 layers is ridiculous and more than 4 layers are basically overkill on balanced games, so the nerf you propose is not enough. 4 layers are enough.
I⊠what?
What I just proposed would put 4-5 layers as the most layers of walls your typical player could afford to put down. At 5 layers, your walls are taking up a width of 35 units, which is a width that most players couldnât afford to give away to walls without losing cost-efficiency on them in terms of straight-up cost and space utilization.
Have you never played treaty? Iâm confused, are the concerns about treaty or not? Because I can easily stack 30 layers of walls in a 50 min treaty game, even playing China with Great Wall sent.
Indeed 
I donât see the relevance of that?
You will want to layer your walls around the base, not to protect your horse guns.
The problem of walls is that they shut down counter attacks and turn the game in a tug of war. Layering 4 walls around your base makes your economy invulnerable. Even if your army wipes, you can still recover enough troops by the time your enemies are at the 3rd layer, unless they have been spamming mortars (in which case you losing your army is almost hypothetical)
One of the reasons I donât play treaty. I am mostly talking about supremacy here. Treaty has a completely different meta anyway. Perhaps this is where the misunderstanding stems from
Youâre missing the point. With the distance of 7 between possible walls, you would only be able to put 5 walls in a width of 35 units.
I was using a horse gun as an example. A howitzer is a better one - If youâre attacking someoneâs base and your at the base of their furthest walls with a Howitzer, it would be impossible for them to have more than 5 layers of walls for you to break through without giving up massive portions of their base for walls.
Iâm not sure youâre understanding how far a distance of 7 units is in this game. It is not a short distance - typical infantry and cavalry sieges at a distance of 6.
I realise the meaning of the distance just fine. I just donât think itâs enough. And i am not sure how this would work on a technicial level.
I suggest to reduce the damage of shooting through walls, let this be an devâs experiment
Walls cost 5 wood and 5 gold per piece and double HP.
Bastion to Industrial
Everyone is happy
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not only does that sound complicated mechanically to add to the game it also sounds really wonky.
Thatâs like an entire engine overhaul xD
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