Suggestion: Rename and reinstate removed Settlements

So a while back I suggested that the Inca be renamed to Quechua and reinstated on old maps, rather than be relegated to Upper Andes. The latest patch did this! Though I don’t presume that the devs actually saw my suggestion, and think this was likely coincidental. But that won’t stop me from restatting my opinion on the other removed native settlements being reinstated!

Tlaxcalas

A redesign of the Old Aztecs. I picked the Tlaxcalas because they were enemies of the Aztecs, and allied with the Conquistadors against the Aztecs, and much of Cortes’s army consisted of Tlaxcalan warriors.

Units

Tlaxcalan Flower Knight - Elite warrior armed with an obsidian sword. Replaces the “Aztec Jaguar Knight”.

Tlaxcalan Eagle Warrior - Elite infantry that flings javelins from an atlatl. Good against infantry. Replaces the “Aztec Eagle Knight”.

Technologies

Tlaxcalan Training - Renamed Aztec Initiation.
Tlaxcalan Cacao - Renamed Aztec Chocolate Recipes.
Tlaxcalan Economy - Renamed Aztec Chinampa.
Tlaxcalan Noble Warriors - Renamed Aztec Garland Wars.

Maps

Mexico, Sonora, Yucatan

Blackfoot Confederacy

A redesign of the old Lakota.

Units

Blackfoot Axe Rider - Blackfoot horseman armed with an axe. Replaces the “Lakota Axe Rider”

Blackfoot Horn Rider - Elite Blackfoot horsemen armed with a lance. Replaces the “Lakota Dog Soldier”

Technologies

Blackfoot Hunting Grounds - Renamed Lakota Hunting Grounds
Lords of the Plains - Renamed Lakota Horse Trading
Sky Dogs - Renamed Lakota Dog Soldiers.

Maps

Colorado, Dakota, Great Plains, Rockies

Three Fires

A redesign of the old Iroquois. The Council of Three Fires was a confederacy consisting of the Ojibwe, Ottawa, and Potawatomi. The Council of Three Fires were fairly large, survived for around 1000 years, and maintained relations with both other native societies and with later colonial ones.

Units

Three Fires Warrior - Three Fires warrior that hurls tomahawks into battle. Replaces the “Iroquois Tomahawk”.
image

Three Fires Mantlet - Short-ranged siege unit. Replaces the “Iroquois Mantlet”. The Council of Thee Fires maintained relations with both the Huron Confederacy and the Iroquois League, so they would know of and could build their own mantlets if needed, but honestly it’s hard to research online, as all you find is information about short capes. So this one’s a bit iffy.

Technologies

Keepers of the Faith - Renamed Iroquois Lacrosse.
Keepers of the Trade - Renamed Iroquois League.
Keepers of the Fire - Renamed Iroquois Morning Wars.

Maps

Dakota, Great Lakes, Saguenay

7 Likes

Dog Soldiers aren’t a made-up thing, they’re an actual military group - the thing is, they’re Cheyenne. The Cheyenne are already in the game. Let the Cheyenne have their Dog Soldiers, it’s weirdly disrespectful to have the Cheyenne and a perfectly accurate Dog Soldier model, but not give it to the Cheyenne.

Not sure why you’d name it Lords of the Plains. The Blackfoot Confederacy was never that large. The Seven Fires were the closest thing to “Lords of the Plains” that you’d get, unless you went far enough south to meet the Comanche.

I’d suggest using the Arapaho, not the Blackfoot. Either that, or the Assiniboine. Assiniboine would be interesting for the technologies you could create for them - Stone Soup being a prime example.

Also, thing to note, the Blackfoot weren’t historically on any of those maps. They were in northwestern Montana to the Cascade Range and were primarily related to the tribes of that area.

EDIT: BTW, here’s a fun map to look at.
https://native-land.ca

1 Like

I never said they were, but the tech name wouldn’t make any sense for shipping the new unit. Not that it made sense before, so I needed a new name, and Sky Dog is the Blackfoot word for Horse.

“Lords of the Plains" is a term associated with the Blackfoot, though sources disagree on its origins, either it’s something they called themselves, or something 19th century historians called them.

The whole point is to keep the original technologies and units intact but to give them new ‘flavour’, if we’re adding new technologies then it’s not reinstating the old, it’s making something new.

The ingame maps are really distorted, I was trying to best line them up with a real map and figure out where Montana was.

All I see is a mess of colors that I can’t decipher. How do I make it only show me a single nation’s territory?

NOOOO!!!

How many times do we have to say that those settlements are ALREADY in the game and already renamed since 2006???

Cheyenne, Huron and Zapotec are the TWC’s minor settlements of the major natives. Just look at their settlements and look at Aztec, Iroquois and Lakota settlements from 2006. THEY ARE THE SAME! They have the same artwork, they keep (mostly) the same techs and they are (mostly) on the same maps.

Why do you guys keep on asking for something that is already implemented for over almost two decades???

5 Likes

While I absolutely agree with @SimilarOwl0320, that these are already within the game. They don’t need to be in there.

https://native-land.ca/maps/territories/oceti-sakowin-sioux/
Here, this should clear it up a big. The problem is you have to know a nations’ autonym to be able to search and isolate a single nation.

Ngl, that’s ■■■■■■■ hilarious considering how absolutely tiny their controlled area usually was. They clashed spectacularly with the Seven Fires a lot, but they were known to lose quite often and were pushed heavily to the west time and time again. Probably helps that the Arapaho and the Cheyenne both allied with the Seven Fires. The Cheyenne were so close an ally they might as well have been the 8th and 9th Fires.

Oddly enough, a more interesting and accurate unique unit for a Blackfoot unit would be a female cavalry rider. I don’t know much about the Blackfoot, but they were highly accepting of letting women choose their own paths in life. Being a warrior was entirely up to them and acceptable for them.

technically there are some stuff that could be port over

  • old aztec settlement had eagle warrirors (basically just skirm) + tech for more explorer HP
  • Old Lakota settlement had a big button style tech that was meta even in some esoc implementation
  • Old Haud had the tommahawks with melee range attack which could be fun to have again. They also had a tech that increased the range of all range units, which might be interesting to have

So I am not against porting them over with name changes, they did it with old inca so it can be done

Dude:

  • Haud already have their tech to increase the range (LaCroix/lacrosse don’t know the name) of their units. No need of that.

  • Since Tomahawk was not a special unit anymore he had been normalized to the standard musketeer: and we already have a minor native Musk with melee ranged damage ( Sudanese Dervish).

  • Aztec’s hero Hitpoints bonus was transferred to the Udasi minor native and to the chief Politician and to two Aztec cards.

  • The Lakota Dog Soldier spawn was transferred to the Fire Pit.

Again: why do you guys insist on running around a circle? What you guys ask from time to time is done for almost twenty years.

I’d be fine if you ask for more natives or improve the old ones, but asking to reinstate civs that are reinstated FOR ALMOST 20 YEARS, while there are so many loose things in the game in a weekly basis is really out of touch with reality.

2 Likes

yeah but now its an exclusive tech, with a TP ver its available to all civs

That is a skirm unit, not a musk

yes but now that is a separate tech for a single civ

The point of these changes isnt that they don’t exist in the game, is that they are techs and civs that used to be usable in certain maps but are no longer.

it will be effectively new content since these package of techs an units are currently not the game, and implementing them gives different ways to play these maps

To put it another, lets say instead of reinstating old minor natives, we are “introducing new natives that have similar techs to the old ones”. would that be any better?

1 Like

They are ingame, but on “unknown” maps

They have units with different stats and different techs, they’re not the same.

Yeah, this could be fun

I agree with the premise that I’d like to see the old native civs restored, even under new names. While Cheyenne and Zapotec are pretty close to being 1-to-1 replacements for Lakota and Aztecs respectively (but lack each civ’s special unit), I am especially dissatisfied with Huron, who definitely are not as useful as the Iroquois minor civ was, especially since they only have mantlet and don’t have the tomahawk warrior.

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This is what spurred on the suggestion, I liked the old “Iroquois” and their techs, especially “Iroquois League”, plus. The Huron techs are rather boring, two of them just let you get/train more mantlets.

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That’s a cool idea. Or they could give the units gender variation similar to villager-type units, or similar to how State Militia are randomly either black or white.

Honestly, that basic concept of unit gender variation is something that should happen to all military units for the Lakota. As I’ve been studying the Haudenosaunee, it was less common an occurrence among them to see women warriors, but not unheard of. However, for the Lakota and other plains nations, it was damn common. It was honestly most common for a woman to accompany her spouse to battle and assist however she could.

Hell, according to Cheyenne oral history, Buffalo Calf Road Woman is the person who finally killed Custer at Greasy Grass.

Nayne-Hi, a Cherokee woman, is stated to have chewed lead for her husband at battle, and even taking his place when he fell. This, as well, was super common.

So, I finally played Mexico for a while, and they can research the pre-Warchiefs Aztec Chocolate Recipes tech under the name of Tlaxcalan Chocolate Recipes, as well as train pre-Warchiefs Jaguar and Eagle warriors (though without reflavoring them).

It makes wish even harder they’d commit to the idea of renaming them to Tlaxcalans and reintroducing them in the game.