Although Portugal has, in the game’s history, been the go-to long range civ, if it needs a full rework to gain a more interesting identity, I don’t think the playerbase would be against this.
It would also give a hole that a future civ could potentially fill, in a much more interesting way.
portgual very ‘‘generic’’ on game
Don’t go too crazy with it. Portugal has been my favorite civ for a long time. Imo it needs to keep its current flavor. I like the micro intensive fast long range units (Cassadors and Range 18 Dragoons), and I like playing for the late game where people who couldn’t kill me off just loose cause my eco is crazy good and my units are heavily upgraded. I also have to mention the incredible fun of Organ Guns ripping infantry into a cloud of raising XP numbers and range 48 Mortars behind strong walls as I treaty push your base.
I’m okay with some changes, if you don’t like the civ then maybe it would be best to play another civ.
I personally don’t want to see Portugal fundamentally changed. A couple new toys to play around with would be fine, but “full rework” sounds like you want to take away some or all the cool stuff the civ has to make a new civ while deleting my favorite civ in the game.
I think it would be a good thing to access some of the Brazilians civ stuff (if such a civ will be made) using Home City cards for the Portuguese civ - like Spanish civ with access to Hacienda.
The funny part is most of the unique unit options available for Portugal are mostly colonial units, it’s kinda why everybody’s having an incredibly hard time finding any, nobody studies that lol.
Fidalgo unique hussar… Would be rad
Why not give them cool stuff they actually had?
Arquebuziers, Berço Cannons, Ordenancas, Naus, Feitorias/Forts, Fidalgos, Aventureiros
Or maybe create a brand new building for the Portuguese civ - Feitoria. The building would replace the standard Trading Post for Portugese civ. Its unique feature, apart from its unique appearance, could be attacking enemy units - something like a mini-fort.
Or instead of a TC you can drop a “Colonial” fort/ Feitoria, like you said a mini fort.
I don’t agree that it needs a full rework. The whole point of my sugestions were to add more flavour to a bland civ, making it a bit more historically inspired and, hopefully, some of the DE devs could add some of the ideas I presented to the game. We shouldn’t expect the devs to do a full rework, since plenty of people are used to playing the civ as it is right now, they aren’t making a mod. That’s why my suggestions are more in the form of Cards/one Unique Unit here or there. I also wrote these suggestions, because I think the direction the devs are taking the Civ (Cheap RG Crossbow, buffing Organ Guns [please give me a Card to fully replace them] and high melee attack Light Cav) is awful.
Generally, my main issue with Port gameplay is that:
A) They don’t have many Unique Units
B) They are only OK in terms of cool unique mechanics
C) Their strategies revolve around the same combo of units and the same overall strat and
D) Their Unique Cards are either just upgrades or extremely dull/useless (Passage to Nippon sounds like a really cool name for a Card… and then you read the description)
Also I hated that 5% hunting gathering Bonus. It was unimaginative and basically a band-aid to solve the problems of a poorly made civ.
Ok not gonna be so radical.
Changes:
New Unique Ship Nau.
Replace Organ Gun for Berço Canon
Aventureiros: Heavy Melee Infantry
Fidalgos/Acobertados: Melee Cav
Replace the free Towncenter for a Feitoria, that acts as a weaker fort cant train troops but can garrison some troops and can train Villagers.
Effective for map control and rush defence.
I would argue remove pikeman, and make an Age 2 Halberd, Ordenancas for Portugal.
Portugal used a lot more Halberds than Pikes in the Ultramarine Empire.
Cant really make a case for Dragoons.
I wouldn’t have an issue with a unique ship. It would be cool and wouldn’t change much.
As for the other stuff:
Civs are asymmetrical, if a civ has a strong age 2 it is generally weaker later. If it’s weak in age 2 than it might have a strong age 3 and/or 4.
I think Portugal is the weakest civ if you play age 2 and aren’t on water. If you made Ports middle of the pack in age 2 then suddenly you have to nerf them somewhere else. If I want to play age 2 I’m either going for a wildly unexpected rush (which can work, in some rare situations) or I’m going for some kind of semi ff because without water I know that just like your civ will have trouble beating me late game I don’t have much of a chance if I don’t get out of age 2.
If you mostly want a unique Hussar and a unique ship for some flavor I wouldn’t mind as long as we’re careful not to overtune them.
If you went with something like:
Cost: 120f, 80c
HP: 340, 20%rr
Melee Attack: 29
Speed: 6.75
Siege: 20
Then I wouldn’t really be concerned as it would take 12 hits for it to kill a Hussar and the Hussars would still kill them in 12 hits. You could even give it +2 los or something like that.
I really really like playing the Portuguese and I don’t want to see the things that I love about the civ get nerfed because a few people want to be able to play in age 2 or something
Don’t remove the organ gun and replace it with some cannon. Every other Euro civ gets some kind of generic cannon and the Organ Guns are way cooler.
Dragoons have been a core part of the civ for years. Like at a minimum since, 2007 or whenever TAD came out and added the age 4 Range card. The Dragoons are part of what makes playing the civ enjoyable.
If you want a reskinned Halb with slightly altered stats I wouldn’t mind. Same goes for a reskinned Hussar with slightly altered stats. You’d need to be careful with both though.
Again, I’d either like or at the very least wouldn’t mind a unique ship.
As for the age 2 TC/fort thing, I wouldn’t do that. The TCs are strong enough and being able to force Ports out of taking extra map control is important for some civs. I can 10/10 as Ports and be up before almost any other civ. Giving Ports a map control fort that trains vills would likely be a major balance issue. And if you don’t let it train vills than it kills the civs eco.
So basically you dont want the civ to change, because you have your playstyle sorted.
Lets keep it mediocre and with no identity then.
Unfortunately i know it wont change, but i will keep slamming the poor civ design.
Organ guns lmao. Lazy.
At least they got rid of the Mameluks.
And you know why Portugal had mameluks?
“Mameluco is a Portuguese word that denotes the first generation child of a European and an Amerindian. It corresponds to the Spanish word mestizo.”
Ufffff, poor research there. (My assumption tho)
Edit: Im sorry mate, i just get fustrated with Portugal depiction in history games. Its lazy and poorly research most of the time and that pisses me off. I apologize for my outburst.
It doesn’t have the most unique units, but it plays very differently than really any other civ. The closest one is the US which is better in the early game and doesn’t fight as well at such a long of a range.
Cassadors and Organ Guns are unique and I’d argue Dragoons with 18 range play very differently than any other light cav in the game.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with not wanting one of your favorite units getting replaced from your favorite civ. I also don’t think anything is wrong with not wanting massive changes to your favorite civ. You suggested removing the Organ Gun and replacing it with a cannon (which would play more like a Falconet than the Organ Gun does). You also didn’t seem to care for Portugal’s Dragoons, seemingly being in favor of making Portugal a halb civ…
…A massive change towards a different play style that other civs have. It sounds like you want a melee civ, like Germany, Spain and China. Right now Portugal is uniquely a long range civ and that’s part of why I like them. So, when you’re suggesting massive changes, yeah, I’m probably going to be against most of them.
Imagine having Japan but no Samurais. Thats how i feel playing Portugal.
You could call it the civ Atlantis cause half the stuff is made up.
If its a game based on history, i would like to have some of that basis. Portugal does not need to lose some of its ranged focus especially on arty and musks, but i would get rid of goons focus and focus on halberds yeah. Because thats what they historically used and were good at.
Oher civs are adjusted for historical acuracy, but Portugal needs to stay with ahistorical stuff because its been in for years? If its wrong change it. Simple.
I’d also like to add that I hope the developers either replace the Black Riders you get from the “Order of the Tower and Sword” Church Tech with Elmetti (I don’t mind if they’re less) or replace the Ordenanças Tech (which really should’ve been a Card to begin with) with some units (something like Voluntários Académicos [State Militia] or Reais Estrangeiros [Grenadiers] or Queen’s Lancers [Lancers] or Knights of Christ [Hospitallers], etc.).
Got it. Make Portugal a Musk Falc civ. Remove the Dragoons that pair well with Cassadors and Portugal can finally be a more historically accurate Musk Falc civ, like British (musk Falc), Ottomans (Jan Falc), Swedes (Caro Leather/Falc)…
Currently Portugal has a unique play style (though admittedly they have few options) and a military comp that handles differently than any other Skirm/Goon +art mix.
The problem with historical accuracy is that most of the European civs would be too similar because most of them developed similarly militarily speaking.
If I recall correctly it’s historically inaccurate for Germany not to get Musketeers. Same thing probably applies to the Dutch. And Russia didn’t fight with masses of poorly trained troops at the time the game is set in if I recall correctly.
The reason for the historically inaccurate gaps in unit rosters is to make the civs play differently. Admittedly Russia’s is based more on a stereotype of how people expect Russia to play I think. More examples could be added but I don’t feel the need to list more right now.
Deleting the Goon stuff from Portugal would make them less unique because they’re unit comp would look just like the rest of Europe at that point (except worse because Cassa+Musk is worse than Cassa Goon outside of treaty games for reasons I outlined Here ).
If you want a Royal Guard Upgrade for Halbs remove the Royal Guard Upgrade from their Musketeers and give it to the Halbs.
It’s very hard to find anything regarding Portugese use of Organ Gun/Ribauldequins however I found this:
From the book Warfare and Empires: Contact and Conflict Between European and Non-European Military and Maritime Forces and Cultures - by Douglas M. Peers
Also in the same book:
