Swedish Carolean must definitely be different from other European civilization musket infantry

[BeowulfKaiser]

Swedish Carolean must definitely be different from other European civilization musket infantry

The Carolean unit is not actually the real Carolean, as the representative of the Swedish civilization in the game is Gustavus Adolphus. So the Carolean name Gustavus Adolphus represents the musket infantry. The Swedish musket infantry of the Thirty Years’ War between 1600 and 1680 is named Carolean by the developers in the game. However, the true Carolean unit served Sweden under Charles XI and Charles XII between 1680 and 1721, particularly in the Great Northerns’ War. The musket infantry of the Gustavus Adolphus period were line infantry and were used mostly for defensive purposes. They were not shock infantry. They were shooting from range. They were clearly better in every way than the musket infantry of other European civilizations. They often used swords in close-range combat. With their superior firepower, they were used tactically to support the Swedish cavalry, especially in order to defeat the cavalry more easily. Gustavus Adolphus’ musket infantry was used particularly to defeat Polish and German cavalry in ranged attack. Real Carolean musket infantry during the reign of Charles XI and Charles XII began to be used for shock purposes, just like the cavalry. They would come to a certain distance and shoot from range, then destroy enemy lines from close range with swords, spears and bayonets. They started using bayonets in 1704. In short, while the representative Carolean musket infantry of the Gustavus Adolphus period was more focused on knocking out cavalry from range, the real Carolean musket infantry of the Charles XI and Charles XII period was more focused on knocking out infantry from range and close range. The developers who designed the Swedish civilization in the game mostly designed the musket infantry of the Gustavus Adolphus period and named this infantry Carolean. That’s why the Gustavus Adolphus era musket infantry was well represented by the developers in the game. As in the reign of Gustavus Adolphus, musket infantry attacks from range against cavalry in the game. They use swords. They are faster and have a longer range thanks to their superior firepower. In short, it is quite natural that the musket infantry of the Gustavus Adolphus unit is different from the other European civilization musket infantry. This is as it should be, as the Gustavus Adolphus period is more represented in the play.

[M00Z1LLA]

1. There’s already an active thread discussing exactly this (although it started off alleging they’re underpowered and then morphed into being about design).

2. You are wrong. They are very clearly modeled after proper Caroleans and not Gustavus Adolphus’ soldiers. They started off with only 10 range and a speed bonus in melee and that’s exactly the stats you’d expect for a unit using shock tactics of proper Caroleans. The ranged multipliers against cavalry are 100% for gameplay reasons of compensating for a lack of skirms and goons. If it bears any resemblance to different Swedish soldiers that is merely a coincidence.

If you want Caroleans that conform to history, I’d suggest something like this:

Is it possible for the production team to delete Caroliner?

The poor design of Caroleans is because fitting them into the Swedish civ is like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. To compensate for Sweden not having skirms or goons they were made into a do everything unit with excessive range and ranged multipliers. Those features run completely counter to how they actually fought and undermine them having a coherent design. Their historical fighting style was to march forward and deliver a shot range volley before charging with swords and pikes…

[BeowulfKaiser]

@M00Z1LLA

You are wrong. They are very clearly modeled after proper Caroleans and not Gustavus Adolphus’ soldiers. They started off with only 10 range and a speed bonus in melee and that’s exactly the stats you’d expect for a unit using shock tactics of proper Caroleans. The ranged multipliers against cavalry are 100% for gameplay reasons of compensating for a lack of skirms and goons. If it bears any resemblance to different Swedish soldiers that is merely a coincidence

The Carolean unit can represent both the period of Gustavus Adolphus and the period of Charles XI and Charles XII. Just because the unit’s name is Carolean does not mean it cannot represent the musket infantry of the Gustavus Adolphus era. Since Gustavus Adolphus was the representative of Swedish civilization, it would be more logical to interpret the Carolean unit as representative of the musket infantry of the Gustavus Adolphus period.

[HoopThrower]

Bro redact your post better it’s actively difficult to understand what you’re even trying to say.

Also I second there’s already a thread about this elsewhere.