Tang Dynasty DLC

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
21

Sure that is an issue but how commonly does this come up and how does that make the unit itself unable to be done. In fact it is very codable with current tech.

2 pop means you aren’t really punished for failing to protect the first life because by having a bunch of 1 pop versions running around you can cover the map better. By being 1.5 pop and consolidating 2 units to one you are less penalized for having 1 units worth of map control

Its still a less awkward pop slot number than Mahayana or Aznauri because in only 2 units you will be a whole number

And without Elite Hei Guang (which was used by Tang might as well umbrella TANG(uts) due to Tanguts having deep adoption of Tang stuff) this is really your only real source of cavalry might except camels

22

They don’t HAVE similarities, apart from both being Chinese-adjacent and having access to Bactrian camels.

4 Likes
23

I still hate the idea of something as interesting as a rider based siege weapon being in only one civ unless Bubazi or Sparrowhawks make more sense elsewhere I got hang ups about any civ with 3+ uus

24

Like I suggested, maybe Bubazi should just be the name of a UT.

25

Bubazi being a mountain infantry might even fit for Tibet civ and the Tanguts are a Tibetan people so… it would make sense for Tibet to have mountain combat skills

Tibetans: An archer and monk civ

UU: Tuyuhan Archer - Light cavalry archer who barely does damage but has insane rate of fire.

UT2 Whistling Arrow - Archery Range units and galleys ignore missile armor vs living units (galleys can hit other ships)

UT1: Enlightenment - Monks when deleted will convert their conversion target or their killer if slain.

  • Herdables generate gold.
  • Buildings +1 range and damage starting Feudal and again in Castle Age. Town centers only get damage
  • Elite Steppe Lancer available 1 age sooner
  • Bubazi +1/1 armor

Team bonus: Building a farm house or pasture gives 3 gold

Regional Units: Steppe Lancer, Bubazi, Pasture, Catapult Galley

Missing Techs:

Barracks: /

Archery Range: Elite Skirmisher, Hand Cannoneer, Heavy Horse Archer

Stable: Hussar

Blacksmith: Bodkin Arrow

Siege Workshop: Bombard, Siege Ram

University: Bombard Tower, Carvel Hull, Chemistry, Architecture

Monastery: /

Dock: Cannon Galley, Galleon

Economy: Transhumance, Guilds

Of course this is a bit haphazard. A strange civ that justifies its bad archers as the main staple! Keep in mind the Tuyuhan is not a Kipchik as its rapid RoF instead of an arrow rain per shot. In fact it has a range stat that is higher than normal because it doesn’t get to bodkin.

Too much? Probably but the one Pasture civ without camelry is a cool twist and it gets to share the mountain infantry with its neighboring similar descent Tanguts who are Tibetan lineage as well

26

You mean, Tufans and Gokturks?

1 Like
27

Funny, I recently stumbled upon an actual 12th century tangut poem (In their own Tangut language, the Tanguts called themselves Mi-niah (Miñak), as per wikipedia). The tangut poet considered Chinese as brothers. Want to read it?

Tibetan, Chinese, and Mi – all three have the common Mother,
Their speeches are different, which was caused by (dwelling) in different lands.
On the far West, on the highlands there is Tibet,
In this Tibet land there is the Tibetan script,
On the far East, in the lowlands there is China,
In this Chinese land there is the Chinese script.
Each of these three has its own language, each of them love it,
Each of them pays a great respect to their language,
In our land there is a great Teacher, Iri,
On the sky there is a star of script – it rose up from the East,
Having brought script with it, it brightens the sunset.16
Source

28

Yes, AoE 2 should have a Tang Dynasty DLC fighting against the Tibetans and Saracens, a Song Dynasty DLC (like the one for AoE 4) fighting with Yue Fei against the Jurchens (there’s already a custom campaign with Yue Fei fighting the Jurchens in AoE 2, but in Chinese), and maybe a Ming Dynasty DLC (fighting against the Wokou pirates and perhaps a Zheng He campaign - which also exists in a custom version), and that would connect with the Chinese campaign of AoE 3…

Yue Fei - Mods - Age of Empires

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Zheng He Voyages - Mods - Age of Empires

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(I can only get through the first and last levels without cheats; the rest are just a hellish spam of troops, making it impossible not to get wiped out)…

29

Civs in AoE2 usually get only one campaign, with potential guest appearances (Saracen scenarios in El Cid) and Historical Battles plus V&V scenarios. I get the hunger for a Chinese campaign given the decades of not having one, but let’s not get overboard by suddenly giving them three full campaigns (while Turks, Slavs, Vikings, Koreans, Japanese, Jurchens, and Khitanguts also lack them)

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30

Yes, it absolutely has to be a DLC…we have Jurchens and Khitans, so we definitely need campaigns for both of them, along with the Chinese…

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31

It already happened in 3K.

32

3K are Chinese nationality-wise but they don’t use the Chinese civ that exists in the game and don’t play like it. When we’re asking for a Chinese campaign, we want to play using the OG Chinese civ :stuck_out_tongue:

2 Likes
33

Tibet would be a swordsman faction and actually weaker on archery.

34

And Byzantines. Don’t forget Byzantines.

3 Likes
35

Tibet would be a cavalry civ. Their cavalry was very strong, and they lived in a wide open area, good for horse breeding and combat.

36

From what I’ve seen in Chinese historical records, they talk about Tibetan heavy infantry and even praise them, but there’s not much mention of Tibetan cavalry. Tibetan warriors would’ve ridden horses to the battlefield, but when it came time to actually fight, they’d dismount and line up in array. What impress the Chinese was their infantry fighting in formations, rather than charging on horseback.

At the time, Tibetan armor-making was quite advanced, good enough that it was even exported to nomads in Central Asia. But a well-made suit of armor would’ve been expensive, so it was probably only nobles and elite units could afford it. They were fewer in number and took on the roles of heavy cavalry and heavy infantry. That might help explain why so many of the surviving pieces we see in museums today are cavalry armor, which could give the impression that the Tibetans widely deployed and specialized in cavalry.

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37

I also remeber reading the same about tibetans dismounting to fight.too bad the konnik mechanic is already taken.

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38

I’ve read plenty of them using cavalry. Even cavalry archers (which Chinese observers claimed were not great, but that still shows they were using them).

I’m not denying they used infantry too. Just saying they used heavy cavalry and cavalry archers as well.

39

Tuyuhan isn’t a Tibetan soldiers much the way Kipchiks are a different steppe tribe that is decreed Cuman despite being a neighbor

And for an archer civ it really just embodies the whistling arrows

40

Well, in this case Kipchaks were not a random neighboring tribe, they were part of a huge federation with the Cumans → Cumans - Wikipedia