Tarascans, Zapotecs, Chimu, Muisca and Polynesians - 5 First Nations Civs and Map

Props for the unique ideas. :1st_place_medal:

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The tech pays for itself after you have only mined 250 stone. Mining Stone Become a much better source of Gold income than Gold. Yes you are limited by the finite amount of stone on the map but this tech could easily pay for itself 10X over before that happens and in a team game you can just take your allies stone. And to top it off you get free stone mining and stone last 25% longer.
Alot and effort went it to civs but none of these them are anywhere near balanced The consistient theme is that they have very 5-7 powerful bonuses but are missing very crucial Techs . Usually i am a fan of units that benefit from powerful bonuses or UT but are missing crucial techs but you took this design philosophy to the extreme.

All of these tech are Imperial age techs. Meaning in castle age You have 22% with no downside.
Polish knight have a similiar problem but to a much lesser extent. Polish knight require an expensive UT. While polynesians get +22%Hp for free upon reaching castle age.

Some suggestions…

The Tarascan UU should be the Quangariecha, these were actually the elite warriors their empire had. I’d replace the Otomi knight (not sure if this refers to the Otontin Aztec rank which here would be inappropriate or the Otomi people). Maybe a priest type unit like the Tiuimencha? I think one of their unique techs could probably affect the monastery now that I think about it, since they offered firewood to burn for their patron deity Curicaueri. Perhaps monasteries can provide a trickle of wood instead of coin when you put a relic in? Or wood can be dropped off here? I also suggest a campaign of Tariacuri and how he formed his own triple alliance around the Patzquaro lake basin.

Some better images you can use btw:

Some weapons:

(see the bottom two)

Wonder: Yacatas

I would also maybe consider the Mixtecs over the Zapotecs since you could make a great campaign out of Eight Deer Jaguar Claw of Tilantongo or the Queen Six Monkey of Huachino. Both of these are also precolumbian as well. The image you posted anyway is a Mixtec gold ornament not Zapotec.

This is Lady Six Monkey


This is Eight Deer Jaguar Claw


Some Mixtec warriors

Note how they have different macuahuitl from the typical we see the Aztecs use. The Mixtecs were known for their goldworking so perhaps they can have some economic bonus related to that.

Now if we do go for the Zapotecs instead of the Mixtecs there is some potential here too. They’re apogee is more in the classic period. One can use the warriors above I posted with the Mixtecs. For the wonder, there’s the palace of Mitla:

or use the older temples of Monte Alban

A possible campaign can be centered on the king Cosijoeza who defended Tehuantepec from the Aztec invasions of their king Ahuizotl at the long siege of Guiengola. This one is interesting cause it ended in a romance between the Zapotec king and the Aztec king’s daughter Coyolicotzin, whos children would later face the Spanish. There were also some very bloody conquest period wars with the Mixe, Nahuas and Spanish in the 1530s.


I removed the free stone mining in my Muisca-specific refinement thread, and nerfed the gold generation from 120 to 100%. I’ve thought about even removing the stone mining tech to limit their gold generation rate, but without further testing I’m not sure that’s even needed. Stuff like taking allies’ stone in TGs I’m not super worried about since you don’t even see this much with other civs with strong stone bonuses (Poles, Koreans, Mayans), although I get that this stronger tech increases that likelihood. Even so I’m not convinced that would be broken considering things like the Bohemians or Spanish TBs, which helps the whole team generate gold much faster with no drawback (other players sacrificing their stone better not need Castles for defense/UUs).

Absolutely. To use a weightlifting metaphor, think of this thread as the dirty bulk, and the specific threads as the cut. The dirty bulk is ugly but effective, the cut is what makes ya look good.

Yes, but what units do they get that makes this OP, or even particularly strong? Given that they basically have a Meso tech tree, it plays out as similar to having the Viking infantry HP bonus + the Vietnamese Archer HP bonus, both of which are decent, but are far from the strongest aspects of those civs. Even in Castle, Polynesians infantry suffer from lacking an armor upgrade. The biggest effect this has is probably to make their mangos survive another mango hit with a few hp left, which is good, but far from broken IMO. On water, their ships are tanky, but not better than Portuguese ships which get +1/1 armor and +10% HP (and Polynesians miss the ship armor tech).

Good call, I didn’t find this on my first runthrough of historical browsing, but I found it in the Relacion de Michoacan.

I don’t see a need. The Aztec Order was based on Otomi fighters themselves, who fought as mercenaries for both the Aztecs and the Tarascans.

As far as them having a UU priest/monastery tech, this is arguably justifiable for all of the civs discussed here, as most Native American/Oceanic peoples had a special priestly class, but that doesn’t mean that all of them need to have that as a UU/bonus. So for the Tarascans in particular, while that’s a viable aspect of their civ design, I chose not to have a monk focus for them.

The Zapotec civ as I’m designing it is a fusion of Mixtecs and Zapotecs, both of whom called themselves “Cloud People” and inhabited Oaxaca. I didn’t go out of my way to explicitly state this since I don’t think most people known enough about their history to be worried about that, and I don’t know that they would play out differently enough to justify a full split. The Deerskin codices is a reflection of a Mixtec attribute, and the Artisan Workshop is a nod to Mixtec goldworking. That said, if I were to go about civ-maxing, a Mixtec/Zapotec split is a possibility.

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I forgot to mention this but the with poles the stone mining upgrades increase gold generation from stone if we are operating on these rules. This mean you can mine both gold and stone at a rate of .468/s with SSM and Muzo Emeralds.

It works differently in the editor: The gold generation rate is a function of time, not the amount of stone mined, so it has to be calibrated to the stone mining rate (this is originally why I gave them free stone mining, so I wouldn’t have to change the generation rate). So the way that is set up mechanistically, you actually get less gold per stone once you’ve researched the upgrades (unless you alter that with triggers every time an upgrade is researched). Also, I realized I didn’t include this in the OP, but Muisca won’t get Stone Shaft. Will change that in the OP.

“Villagers generate 0.184 gold per second while in stone gathering animation which is roughly half of the stone gathering rate (0.36 stone per second). The gold is stored immediately to the player’s bank, however. Stone Mining and Stone Shaft Mining both increase the gold generation rate by 15%. The numbers work out in such a way that irrespective of upgrades, Stone Miners generate 1 gold for every 2 stone collected.” I don’t know what to tell you but if you conducted test and had different results.

This is indeed how the Polish bonus itself is calibrated. To give another civ a similar bonus in the editor, you use the Modify Resource trigger to modify Stone Mining Gold Productivity, and set an amount per 100 seconds of mining stone. You’ll find for non Pole civs given this attribute, researching stone mining upgrades doesn’t influence the gold generation rate (although you can work it in via further triggers). Easily verifiable if you do this test.

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Does “first nations” refer to non-Ameeican natives as well?

A bit of an odd necro, my friend.

In this context, yes. “First Nations” is used most specifically in Canada to refer to non-Inuit groups of native ancestry, but it’s sometimes used in the US in a broader context. Overall I think it’s an appropriate term for the first known cultures to inhabit an area and more or less on par with “indigenous” or “aboriginal” peoples.

at most 2 more civs for the meso civs. but if its north america then 3 to 4 is good

need 2 more africans civ at least to use those african building set

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I imagine a dart thrower, blowgun warrior or other such cool stuff.