Tatar's hill bonus is holding them back

Tatar’s hill bonus, albeit being a nice one, is very circunstatial.
It has no effect in maps with no hills like arena or steppe.
It make tatars very strong in hill focused maps like golden pit
It almost make no different in some random maps because there are few hills.

This bonus makes tatars harder to balance, because when they became viable in arabia 1v1 (a map in which a cavalry archer civ should be viable), they will became OP in hill focused maps.

I suggest to convert this bonus into an Unic Technology. Maybe merge it with timurid siegecraft.

Then, in exchange, something should be done to buff them a bit, at least from castle age onwards (hill bonus is very circunstantial in feudal age, except in some scout-scout fights). I would love to make their steppe lancers more unic. Maybe make them be affected by silk armor. Or give them an unic bonus to their scoutline and their steppe lancers, such as an increase to attack rate.

Just spitting ideas here, dont take them too much seriously.


Well, I wouldn’t say it’s a bad bonus. While circumstantial, it can be quite useful, it’s not good enough. I think the problem is that their military bonus only apply a few time and it’s easy to block (you never want to fight downhill, regardless the civ you’re facing), their eco bonus is short lived, and free parthian tactics doesn’t make up for everything else.

I think they deserve to have better steppe lancer. The best ones, actually. That would give them more variety for army composition and a good strong unit.
I would make something like SL have +1/+2 attack in castle /imperial age and then make silk armor affect them as well

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Its a good bonus, I know, but circumstantial.

Since developers nerfed mongol haunting bonus, which was a nice bonus overall, but with some cimcurstances in which it is huge, I think they can do the same with this other circumstantial bonus.
By this way, they would be far easier to balance for all maps.

(same should be done for indians shorefishing bonus).

The difference is that it’s super hard to deny their bonuses to the Mongol and Indian. You have to go full rush against civs that are faster than you. Tatars? Just take the hill first. Or if they are there already, just retreat as you would vs any other civ.

Tatars are my favourite civ, but i feel they are kindda week against other cavarly civs, i feel that steppe lancers are useless, they are pretty nerfed, and Keshiks should have more range/damage maybe, just thinking how make them a little more strong against other better civs.
and taking the sheeps away from the TC in feudal age was a mistake!
but well, still my favourite civs :smiley:

I think they are really good. Hussars with more melee armour as an meat shield, CA with more armour and hill bonus and the option to go fully cheap keshik if needed gives them good options. You can also kill other cav civs with heavy camels. They are far weaker against mesos than they are against cav.

Agreed. Since their own infantry are incredibly easily countered by archers it makes it very risky /difficult to go for the militia line. Which affects their match up with Goths as well.

Its cool they were eventually affected by silk armour but we still hardly ever see SL…

Imo should’ve been 1 sheep from every tc. Weakens their boom, but strengthens their feudal

No, the hill bonus is balanced and more than fine, and you can avoid fighting down hill (which is something you should do it anyway against any civ). Tatars now are fine and don’t need any change and their steppe lancers affected by silk armor which make their steppe lancers the best in the game with FU. It is weird how you said that hill bonus is OP?!!! We don’t want to remove the civ identity

This thread was from 11 months ago… Now I think they are fine.

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Tartars were (and are) one of the strongest civs after the november update.

Sheeps in feudal age meant that they could wait for heavy plow before putting down any farm. And their scouts into CA is one the strongest strategies.

I don’t think it’s that strong, in pro play it can be abused a lot, but in the end, is used more for CA and trebs, maybe a bit of xbows in castle age.

I think that instead tartars could be nerfed on the TR and PT bonus, making them 50% cheaper and 50% faster to research, but not free.