Team game Line of sight, and Portuguese Team bonus rework

  • Yes. Team Game vision should be default setting from dark age
  • No. Team game vision should be DISABLE as usual

0 voters

Team game vision is a default setting of all modern RTS game. Knowing that AOE2 is a 20 year old game with alliance setting, it is understandable that team game vision is not a default setting which even needed to be spending resource to research in early AOK version.

In 2022 team game with discord / skype make pre-made team have a large advanatage over single player who queue for a team game. In order to balance it, I think it is the time for developer to set team game vision as default setting of team game (rank game and quick play)

For the team bonus of Portuguese, I boldly suggest that we completely remove team bonus of Portuguese so that Portuguese will be the first civ that have NO team game bonus.

let me explain it in different part:

In 1v1 game, Portuguese current team bonus is totally useless so Portuguese is actually NO team bonus. This change will not affect anything

In team game, Portuguese have a team bonus that players do not need a market to have team vision. However, giving the fact that Portuguese is quite good in current meta among different map in Team Game. I think there is no need for any compensation for their absent of team bonus.

I have also considered giving other team bonus that is similar to Spanish which is too OP. Similar to Incas farming bonus which is just a meme. Maybe market bonus for whole team like Saracens but it will increase its power on 1v1 game which they don’t have it before. I think just simply remove Portuguese team bonus without any compensation would be the best move


Vision should be in dark age, like in age IV or something. We have different language players playing etc, so need more easier communication/pinging. Cant have a system like CSGO ingame voice for the same reason, but would be doable for the sake of playing solo TG-s, but will be hard to communicate still.
Portuguese should have a team bonus, maybe casual markets +5 LOS ?

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No, if team vision becomes the default settings, then give Portuguese another team bonus. I don’t care if it is useless or if it is a global nerf (by nerfing something), just give something.

I wouldn’t mind getting buildings created 1% faster or trade cogs build 1% faster. I would rather give gunpowder units +2 LOS or outposts cost no stone, but if it feels too strong, I can take anything as long as it is something.


This would break numerous scenarios in the campaign since it requires your allies/friendly not to be seen. There would need to be a trigger called ‘restore dark vision before market construction’.

Nomad is incredibly confusing with team vision.


Easy fix: make it require a Town Centre.


It won’t. it just like the separated explored vision setting in black forest and do not affect other thing. Just make the default setting of Quick Game / Rank Game team game setting of vision as team game vision is fine. It do not affect campaign lobby or all other thing


This is actually a good idea. Thanks for your suggestions

A compromise: Move Cartography from Market to TC, and make it a researchable tech in the Dark Age that costs 50 food or something suitable.

Players can research to gain vision as soon as they have TC, but if they are willing to take the risk of not having vision a while, they can gain a slight economic lead, just like sometimes players want to research Loom later.

Then give the Portuguese a new team bonus. Maybe make Carrack the new team bonus and then bring in a new UT for them.


This is a good suggestion but I think it will break numerous scenarios in the campaign

As for the campaigns, it’s actually easy to handle.
After introducing a change like this, we can satisfy the vision requirements of the designs of existing campaigns by disabling or granting this technology.

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That is actually a good idea. And also keeping market free cartography otherwise it will break the old scenarios I guess?

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Well, Market would no longer have anything to do with Cartography.

My understanding is:
If the scenario requires the player to have vision from the start, simply grant the player this tech.
If the scenario requires the player not to have vision, simply disable the player from accessing the tech.
If the scenario requires the player not to have vision initially and have vision after certain conditions are met, disable the player from accessing the tech and grant it when the conditions are met.
If the scene doesn’t have special needs, the player can access it naturally at TC just like in a normal game.

How about the scenario need a market for player to have cartography? I can’t think of any way that does not involve updating the scenario

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I’d be fine with the line of sight being shared upon reaching Feudal age, but since it’d be a big change (albeit probably a good one) I’d be hesitant to go to the extreme of sharing it from the start of the game. Usually fighting doesn’t start until the Feudal Age anyways, and the Portuguese team bonus wouldn’t need to be reworked.

What is the different?

saving a market with 175 wood make a huge different

An extra 5-10 minutes of shared vision at the start of games can have a lot of subtle effects. Team walls can be made more effectively (no holes) and attacks can be more coordinated than before (armies and forward villagers moving towards the perfect spot in unison), amongst other things. If allied vision is on from the start, it could lead to unforeseen consequences where players develop strategies that others find unfun to play against (like the old Inca tower rush and Teuton TC range). By limiting it to a smaller change (at first anyways), this would give time to observe whether the changes are having the desired effect or whether further changes are even necessary.

Hi i have mentioned before but I would like to explain in based on what you have mentioned.

Team wall with discord and skype can already without hole. Without the vision just give free advantage to pre-made player and put solo team player in a bad position

Attack can be more coordinate should be encouraged because it make the match more fun to watch. Also the discord / skype player already have this advantage but solo team game player does not. which is kind of unfair.

Yes this is the exact situation a solo team game player face when they encounter premade discord skype players. My proposal minimise this effect and make the game fun to play. instead of limiting the option exclusively to premade player which make solo team game player play a unfun game.

Just make the portuguese team bonus remove the stone cost for outposts. Not too strong and also historically accurated.


Maybe half price if developer insist to have stone cost on outpost

When you bring changes to the basic technology tree, it takes more effort to deliberately keep how the old version works like in the scenarios than to let the new version fit the scenarios. I Guess.

Saving only 2 stone is very insignificant.
I still prefer team bonus for adding armor to ships, like +1/+1 (equal to Carrack) or +0/+1.