Teamgames elo

just lost 2v2 game and we lost 16/10 points and the oponent got 16/22 points.
teamgame elo looks inflated in general so it makes sense

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the one who lost 10 points and the one who gained 22 points where probably lower elo.

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why does that explain anything?

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If you are low elo (compare to opponent), and you win, you should be rewarded with bonus point. In the opposite, if you loose against a much weaker opponent, you should be punish. In a 1v1 situation, it’s clear and easy to understand how it works…

In multiplayer, it’s more tricky. Imagine a 1000 elo player and a 1800 elo player on the same team. On the other team, there’s two 1400 elo player. Both team are “balanced” in term of point. If the first team win, should the 1000 elo player rewarded even if he probably got carried? or if they loose, should the 1800 elo player get punished because his ally is bad?Tricky question. and no response are 100% correct.

In this game they took the same direction as the 1v1. Reward lower elo on winning, punish higher elo on loosing.

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well you cant reward more points than the other team loses even if you did it the way you explained it. sure you can discuss about distributing within the team. The thing is in an elo system the sum of points cant increase. There is issues with inflation from new players and smurfs but if the elo system itself is creating points then its not an elo system. Thats gonna completely destroy the teamgame ladder longterm.
On voobly the teamgame rating of the absolute top players was like 2k2 compared to 2k7 in 1v1. that came down to teamgames not being as consistent and also the fact that fewer teamgames are played so its not inflating as much over the years. but in DE we have pushed the ratings to 2k3 already over the level of 1v1s and that in just 3 months of the game being released and that doesnt even include the top players because they almost never play rated teamgames. If we keep going at this pace we will reach 3 in this year 11.
I dont believe that the rising elos can be explained by the system being too “young”.

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Yeah nah you are right that is bugged, on first glance it looked alright to me, one gained 6 extra while one lost 6 extra, but no! He didn’t lose 6 extra instead he lost 6 less.

I just noticed that my 2k2 teamgame elo means that i am in the top ~900. thats the same like my 1500 1v1 elo. Its obvious that its broken. I dont know why the mods think they dont even have to pay attention to this. maybe they will once tops reach 3k tg elo lul.

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Is this still not fixed? I didn’t see any mention so far in the patch updates. I already noticed how strange it was that my 1v1 ELO started out at 1000 while my team game ELO started just above 1300. Maybe they assign you the current average ELO when your ELO is determined? That would mean that 1v1 ELO calculations are indeed correct while the team ELO system is wrong and has the average ELO climbing.

They should fix the calculation for team games and after that they should multiply every player’s current ELO with a certain constant factor such that the average ELO becomes 1000 again.

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bump
still not fixed

Absolutely ridiculous that this still hasn’t been fixed.

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i know this isnt as simple as 1v1 rating, but this really needs to be fixed.

teamgame ladder is a complete meme at this point.

people who want balanced matches play unranked and base the balance on the 1v1 ratings.

people who played ranked tg before 1v1 start 1v1 with an elo so much higher than they deserve that they just give up sometimes.

also, since tg elo is taken for the initial 1v1 elo, this inflates the 1v1 elo too over time.

so, please fix this absolutely broken elo system.

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i have an idea to fix this.

  1. calculate the team rating :
    not use simple average anymore, but use and adjusted version of it taking account of unbalanced teams.
    team rating = average rating + 0.5 * standard deviation
    that way, unbalanced teams should be punished, because they get higher team rating.
    (0.5 can be replaced by any number between 0 and 1, depending on how much you want to punish unbalanced teams … but i would recommend something between 0.2 and 0.5 )
    examples :
    team with 1000 and 2000 rated players will get 1750 team rating with 0.5 (1600 with 0.2) (because standard deviation is 500 for them)
    team with 1500 and 1500 will get 1500 team rating (because standard deviation is 0)
  2. calculate elo variation :
    in a same team, everyone should win or lose the same amount (with maybe an exception for players with low number of games) , and the opponent team should lose/win what the first team win/lose. This should be calculated with team rating, the same way 1v1 rating is made of.

i often play 2v2 with friends that are not of the same level. My lower elo friend always wins more points than i do and loses less, and if i play with my higher elo friend after it, we win some games in a row to compensate, while my lower elo friend playing with another friend always loses some games also after it … the actual system helps lower level being carried, which does not make future games balanced …

This should not be a thing:

Leaderboard Rank Rating Highest Rating Games Streak Wins Losses Win %
Team RM #12482 2104 2147 593 +2 245 348 41%

-100 W/L balance, +1100 points.

The person then decides to play 1v1 and this happens:

Leaderboard Rank Rating Highest Rating Games Streak Wins Losses Win %
1v1 RM #1045 1530 1531 10 -2 3 7 30%

I made this thread. Other smart people figured out the issue behind the inflated TG elo. I suggest to have a read to this thread.

The devs seem to be aware of the issue, but they dont know when and how it will be fixed.

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You can check this as being pretty much fixed even though there is more work to be done.
It only took you like 16 months to notice there was an issue. I mean I switched back to voobly teamgames some time game ago since the teamgame ladder in DE is absolutely atrocous and it will will stay like that until the ratings are reset.
I have a document on my pc that lists the 20+ most important bugs in this game. One of the most important is now fixed so I guess I can start another post with a new bug and wait another 1 1/2 years until that is being fixed. I thought it would be pointless at this point but yay this is a start!
You can probably see what im pointing at right? At that pace this game might have no major bugs by the year 2050!

Honestly you are miserable. nothing to add.

Also this bug never made it into the list of unfixed bugs even tho you were actually tracking it now.
What the ■■■■ is its purpose then. Whats the purpose of this part of the forum. This whole game and everything built around it is a bad joke. I payed like 60 $ on HD and DE with expansions and you still treat players like me with this garbage.

The root of the issue is now fixed in the server maintainance. So they did something.