Thank you Devs + India balance suggestion

I threw the range reduction in for fun, but that’s not the crux of what I’m pushing for. The lower hp would be compensated by doubling their range resist.

Well thanks, I’m interested in seeing how that goes.

Why you would train culverins when you can kill the entire indian army with just skirmishers??

Let me know how their eco is that hige with their more expensive units please cause they dont have any special bonus

making culvs vs india is generally not a great idea. Ranged cavalry and skirmishers both have a bonus vs them, while the “mobile” siege elephant is only 4 speed. Its definitely a good unit, but it’s very easy to counter. Plus if they lose the 2 from the shipment, replacing them is extremely expensive and genuinely difficult.

@stepheneaux12 I have suggested many changes to the unit before, but unfortunately they are usually disregarded because the unit is so polarizing. In a perfect game, i would like them to not be light cav (just artillery) and then normalized hp and resistance (probably the same as a heavy cannon). But at the same time, they are more or less cemented in their current stupid unit tags and hp pool. I wouldn’t touch hp or resistance without removal of the light cav tag as well.

That’s brilliant, I’m all for removing the light cav tag. That is what my thread should’ve been centered around this whole time. It needs no other changes but that.
This way they could be damaged by culvs & falconets if they came within range.

Well they do get a free villager with every shipment which adds up over time, even while doing their sepoy rush it’s never truly all in when they’re getting extra vills with every unit shipment.

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it might not be a bad idea for royal green jacket to grant access to advanced arsenal for india, might be enough

with absolutely zero irony, India can’t have paper cartridge historically

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they can’t have british paper cartridge, so as long its not sent with british consulate on we should be good :smile:

I used the campaign cutscene in a history class presentation back in the day funnily enough

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I’d pay to watch that historical presentation of yours

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India is S tier for sure right now, most people commenting here are either treaty players or low to mid tier in ranking, or biased. There is absolutely no way in Supremacy that India is “maybe A tier”.

The eco behind the army reminds me of TAD Japan that people kept denying was overpowered but turned out to be completely true.

I’d say adding another +5 wood cost to the houses and nerfing siege elephant range by 2 would be a good start. If they’re going to be able to amass so much DPS from range behind an amazing eco, something has to give.

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Any civ can get more villagers faster, sending 5 vills are 5 shipments for indians.

Far from that villager there isnt any economic bonus.

Its not needed to have the same arsenal upgrades, they could have their own techs, focused on the weaknest points like CIR.

The “superior eco” is out when you have to retrain units constantly cause lack of canons and the most expensive units ingame. Again they dont have any eco bonus cause any civ can reach them in villagers

the trickle, trickle, 300 export - otto 4v build easily matches most civs in eco, and you deplete your hunts much slower. India’s 1v1 sup eco is excellent without being very risky

also to people above, seriously, give it up on siege elephant range, the unit is barely functional at 28 range and already loses to heavy cannons, while being the closest thing to a mortar india gets

Again, its not something that other civs cant get. Both trickles are far from a factory (EU get 2) and anyone can reach 99 vills.

Otto 4 vills are ok, but indians need to chop wood, thats the slowest resource. Resource that is needed to build.

Indian eco doesnt get any special traitment, they dont get refrigeration neither economic theory

As Dansil said, Indian eco and scaling is very good for supremacy games. One of the better civs infact.

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specifically supremacy games. their lategame eco is of course unexceptional but in 1v1 games they can match most boom civs and outgather others. the combined trickles make all future vills “free” (generating about 100w per 25 seconds), which means vills are paying for themselves instantly, which is quite noticeable in the midgame. Their eco doesnt fall off until age 4, where they lack any economic shipments at all. This even isn’t terribly relevant in 1v1 since india has hunts longer than anyone else but dutch, meaning you can usually finish a game early age 4 while an opponent attempts a mill switch.

Again, 1v1 supremacy. team games, ffa, treaty all get a nice chance to showcase India’s glaring economic weaknesses in lategame. ive suggested a few changes previously which i can link here… again

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I can agree about the first part, but I don’t agree with nerfing siege elephants, unless you want to nerf them in age 3 and get their stats back in age 4.

India has top notch economy in supremacy games. It is only their weaker late game that makes them balanced for treaty. I know people keep asking for buffs for treaty - but I don’t think you really want that.

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Except for removing the Light Cavalry tag from the [Siege Elephant], how about removing the Anti-Artillery role from them as well and give that to another unit instead?

I know that I am not the only who has suggested this, but I created a post where I suggested that the Indian civilisation could train a new unit that would be called the [Mysore Rocketeer]. They could function as a hybrid between a [Falconet] and a [Culverin] just like the [Light Cannon] for the Haudenosaunee, while the Anti-Artillery multiplier for the [Siege Elephant] can be replaced with an Infantry multiplier.

The Mysorean rocket was an Indian military weapon which was effectively used against the British East India Company during the 1780s and 1790s.

Here is a link to the post that I created for anyone who is interested:

(1 new trainable unit for the Aztecs, Haudenosaunee, Incas and the Indians)

No, I would rather not change how siege elephants are used which is one of its only kind and am against giving India an anti-Infantry cannon which would cause balance nightmares to the most balanced and well-designed civ in the game at least in supremacy.

Maybe for treaty, idk.

I agree, India is considerably weaker than just about every civ, at least in my style of play. I almost always feel I am out of gold with them, and Siege elephants stop existing if you’re playing against a Chinese player and they have like, 20 meteor hammers. I wish India had a normal bombard, like a leather cannon.

I also wish China had one.

I also wish Japan’s stupid flaming arrow things were nerfed. I think their range is ridiculous.

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