The african outlaw units break ALL civ's balance, ALL civs

The problem is NOT ONLY that Hausa and Ethoipian are too OP
But, in each African map, other civs could recruit desert warrior or desert raider or desert archer in Saloon, which are too cost-effective too good. Civs like Netherland and German are designed to have no musketeer, that’s how this game works! Now they have desert warriors in African maps (About half of the QS game pool).
So all things are changed. Imo desert warrior should be as bad as Pistolero, all the outlaw units should never be better than average, because they are accessible to all civs.
Anyway, i hope devs rework these units soon. Not nerf, but rework.


The main problem is that civs that don’t have access to musks now have access to highly above average musks, I think if dessert warriors were about the same power as vanilla musks it would be fine, I think we could just nerf the dessert warrior range resist.

Never thought they were that great, how much do they cost at the saloon in gold? They are outlaws so still cost more population than normal, plus if it’s at the saloon you’ve only got 1 building to train them from, a good mass of archer/skirms deals with them easily enough.

70 gold 30 food, so essentially the same total res as a vanilla musk while being as good as a range resist corolean but in age 2 and with a shipment of ten of them and slightly extra siege if I remember correctly.

They are 2 pop, the same as a hussar, hussars are good in age 2 so I don’t see why this wouldn’t apply to the dessert warrior.

This is true, but it’s also true that most musk civs age 2 are only going to make one barracks anyways since they will likely want a stable instead of a second barracks, plus usa and Hausa have ways to get more than one saloon.

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They have 4.25 speed, 0.2 range rumor and 1.5 rof


Thanks, for a euro civ they cost the same though? I thought all saloon units / outlaws cost only gold for other civs.

The total res does seem quite cheap, but it is mostly gold rather than food for a normal musk so I guess that’s quite expensive, the 2 pop is quite annoying early on, especially if this will be the unit you mass because you’ll need a new house every 5 units, I know huss are also 2 pop but usually there’d be only 5-10 huss made early, while people make far more regular musketeers.

Anyway I will try this unit out, I know it changes resistances or something depending on formation, never really used it though. Might be good for Hausa because they lack a musketeer equivalent, unless you send the akan/magaidi cards.

I still hold the opinion that if you want to make some very underused parts of the game (e.g. mercs, outlaws) more viable, you should first make it generally more viable, then maybe design some exceptionally good ones, not ONLY create some exceptionally good ones and leaving the rest still unviable. That essentially breaks this particular mechanics.
The idea of outlaws is that they are quite cheap (relative to their pretty good stats) but takes more pop to prevent you from spamming a lot of them in the early game. That restriction should not be easily removed.
Despite getting a few updates and having actually decent stats, those 4/5/6 pop “older” outlaws are still more of a meme. Those African outlaws are both pop–efficient and very good.

Let’s compare pistolero vs desert warrior:
Pistolero has 10% more defense and 0.25 more speed. Desert Warrior has more bonus, and can change its defense type. All the rest are the same.
Pistolero costs 85C, 4 pop.
Desert Warrior costs 30F 70C, so a little more expensive, but only 2 pop.

Comparing renegado (probably the only “good” outlaw before) with desert archer, they cost almost the same. The only advantage renegado has is the 10 more hp and better siege (you won’t be using a few skirmishers for sieging in the first place), but renegado requires 5 pop and desert archer only 2 pop.

Not to mention African civs have easier access to a lot of pop-free native units. So I think their outlaws should at least be equally pop demanding.


I think the old outlaws should have their pop reduced in line with the new desert outlaws. Then we might actually see them used.