nope, and if I did, you’d disregard it because of one of a billion things. irrelevant
again, no, you have a problem with the matchmaking system same as I do, you just think it should be bent to your specific whim as opposed to what someone else wants. a shocker, that revelation.
you’ve explained the actual problem and are instead going to act like not having the “only arabia queue” is the epidemic when in reality you’re trying to change a different system to compensate for the failures of the system that suits your needs
never would have guessed.
advocating for ditching players trying to get a game because they’re settings you don’t like, and proffering this as some sort of reasonable behavior is the same as letting a kid smash a windshield to pieces with a hammer because “he’s only X years old.” just because the system doesn’t provide the result you want doesn’t make it broken, and you thinking it’s broken doesn’t give you the right to smash it. just because the playerbase is too immature to understand right from wrong doesn’t mean you should skip the correction period to teach them better.
still bored with
arabia snobs coming up with the same ridiculous argument that it’s okay to make everyone else suffer through the queue because they’re throwing a tantrum when they get to the drive thru and the ice cream machine is out.
Listen, when there is a significant number of people taking time to explain why the system is bad, and yet you repeatedly call us “entitled” instead of replying to arguments, throw some dishonesties like the “RM” meaning or “the lobby is perfect for that”, and act like we’re just some sort of cheaters trying to make other people lose time (did it even cross your mind that the Alt-F4’er ALSO wastes his time in the queue ?). That makes you exactly sound like a
That last post in particular is just a bunch of insults which don’t even do a favor to the camp you’re defending (assuming you’re defending something, I’m not even sure what)
you expect niceties while advocating for ditching games other players are
to, same as you, because you agreed to the settings and didn’t like the result is absurd. advocating for making the players you disagree with suffer because you don’t want to waste your time on something you don’t want to do (and in doing so, waste their time instead) is incredibly poor behavior.
oh man, now he’s the victim. did you forget that the player “wasting his time” chose to waste his time and his opponent’s without his opponent’s consent? that player made that choice of their own accord, outside of the confines of the system, regardless of the wishes of their opponent. you defending this gives you zero grounds to complain about the cordiality of your conversation.
Your opponent can unpause your game if you pause it. Everything is agreed upon in a game of AOE 2. This is a massive exception to the consensual nature of every game of AOE 2 and it should not be
If you want to make a thread about the problems with public games, getting a public rating system going, or specifically making an arabia queue and Arabia ELO, that can happen. This is a discussion. These are the things you are claiming you are doing by coming in here and telling people complaining about ALT+F4 that they are wrong.
There are problems with the system and you deflecting the discussion away from the ALT+F4 issue by saying that it’s a result of people doing something they don’t want, and making this your soapbox isn’t how you go about making a position that stands on it’s own. The only thing you succeed in doing is disenfranchising people who are trying to play the game and are stuck dealing with people who don’t give a fuck about what the other player on the line wants because people think that ALT+F4 isn’t the biggest fish to fry and it’s a result of 10,000 other things and… Yeah?
So why are you using that as an argument? Why are you whataboutism’ing on a thread that handles a problem you don’t think is the real problem because it’s endemic of a deeper problem?
You aren’t doing that. You are moving the goalposts.
The system causes the problem. He’s advocating changing the system. You advocate changing it a different way, but you are not decrying ALT+F4. You are not getting the response you want from such a position because that position is utterly, absolutely, nonsense. Done.
I agree to the settings that we should be able to play a 1v1 on the map we like, with the civs we like, against a similarly rated opponent, since this was agreed for 20 years. I haven’t seen any consensus that choosing map should no longer be allowed, and I consider this a reasonable request approved by the majority of players (note that the devs acknowledge it, since they have tried to implement the unlimited bans at least in the “quick match” option - even though they failed). Since the current ranked pool does not allow to have these settings, despite a massive number of players asking for it , then I consider this as just another technical issue, and Alt-f4 is an unfortunate workaround needed to get there. Whether the other player is affected is irrelevant, the issue is on the devs, not me. I know you don’t share this view, and you are free to do so, but when so many people agree maybe that should hint at something other than “entitlement”.
Because the simplest solution is the better one. Unlimited bans would be a simpler solution, and solve two problems at once. Being able to Alt-F4 was never a problem before DE, and I don’t see a need to prevent it, because the game still has stability bugs and cheaters, so having the option is good.
You still can. That functionality has never been changed. Voobly, HD, AOK, none of them had a matchmaking system for quick, random opponent matches. This is a new system. Assuming that this new system that has never existed before should operate similarly to the system that’s existed the entire time (that being hosted lobbies) is just a stretch. This is not a change in the rules. This is a new system that uses a new set of rules. The old system is still there. If we want to improve that, there’s a way for it. If we want a separate queue, a discussion is useful for airing that.
“unfortunate” is not “these players should not be ALT+F4’ing and wasting their would-be opponent’s time” and as long as you take this wash stance on ALT+F4 your position is utterly untenable. It’s a total disregard for the other player’s wishes and wants for self-gratification, and a respectable player would not do so.
matchmaking was never an option before DE. should we scrap the system entirely or address the problems it creates if we agree it to be a net good? Time to address ALT+F4.
It has been changed, as explained above. The lobby is unsuitable for competitive 1v1 Arabia.
Are you suggesting that I don’t play the game for 1 year in the mean time, waiting for the lobby to get fixed ?
I do not want the other player to adjust to my settings, I want to be matched against a player that likes my setting. If 50% of the time the game would put you against a DM player, would you be a respectable player and play regardless, by respect of the other player’s preference, or would you quit and say this system is stupid ?
There used to be a point in time where premade teams in TGs would randomly get matched against opponents 2x higher than their Elo due to a DE bug, by your definition should they have been respectable and play regardless, getting crushed in 15 min ? What was the respectable solution, stop playing during 3 months, the time it took to get patched ?
This has nothing to with respectability or how nice you are to other people. If I queue for RM 1v1 even against my best friend, and end up on Megarandom, I’d leave regardless, because I estimate that it’s going to be a stupid match, and that a reasonable opponent would agree. It’s about finding a reasonable workaround given an unfortunate situation of the matchmaking. Wasting 40 min of my time to save 5 min of the other player’s time is not reasonable.
Then once you have “addressed” Alt-F4, good luck addressing the new problems it will cause:
stability issues
people AFK’ ing / sandbagging to not trigger the penalty
people getting punished for leaving against cheaters
people getting punished for disconnections
people making smurf accounts to circumvent the leaver penalty
No, much like the OP hasn’t stopped playing the game waiting for ALT+F4 to get fixed. Try pushing the fixes at the same time. You can multitask.
what? of course I would. If I wasn’t aware that this was an option, I’d laugh it off, get beat (I know nothing about DM) and avoid that option. This is a false dilemma and it still fails the basic “should I make someone wait through the queue again” problem and the answer will always be a resounding “No.”
Yes, the TG elo is inflated. I’ve advocated that they need to reset the TG elo rankings and start fresh, and fix whatever bug and/or feature is pushing the elo system to an average rating of 1.6k (the average rating should be 1000 unless there’s a bias pushing ratings up because for every one win, there’s one loss) and that’s besides the point. Do you disagree that this is a problem that should be addressed, or are you just bringing this up to bemoan the faults of a system you’re willing to abuse for pure convenience instead of fixing it? I might be missing your argument, it doesn’t seem to be here.
Nope. it has everything to do with respectability. If you didn’t want to play this map, so you dropped into chat after the game began, said “yeah, I utterly hate this map, sorry gg” that’s a different scenario that ALT+F4 as soon as you see the map selection. Respect for your opponent is the main issue when you make a decision on behalf of said opponent which you do whenever you ditch.
Or do you just say “gg” before you resign after a loss because you’re a robot?
you explain exactly how going back to the last build with map bans will cause “stability issues” (a more vague term you literally couldn’t have chosen, but whatever)
People already go AFK. You’re just asserting that after the game changes, someone will spend twenty minutes in full AFK mode because they’d rather do that than play a hosted game with friends, try out some nonsense builds for the hell of it, or simply… play it out and you seem to believe you represent the mature audience of the game. Got it.
As for “leaving against cheaters” how in the world would you justify this as being a problem at all? Are cheaters a massive strain of players that the game hasn’t addressed? Further, you think that the ALT+F4 problem is justifiably not worth fixing because then people enduring the new ALT+F4 precautions will be strapped into games with cheaters? It sounds like you’ve got a thread to write about the massive epidemic of cheating players if the ALT+F4 community will be inundated with cheater games that they can’t escape.
If anything, that’s a wonderful argument to do away with ALT+F4, so that players will be forced to get DE to fix their massive cheating epidemic. Holy crap.
it’s not a punishment. If you’ve had a legitimate disconnection that’s a one-time freak occurence, that’s a non-factor in your overwhelming playtime to be out of the queue for 15 minutes. Really, in a serious disconnect issue there’s a good chance you might not even know you were timed out since network problems sometimes take a long time to work out.
Finally, if you have a serious disconnection problem because you’re working off a olive can antenna for WI-FI and you disconnect constantly, it’s not punishing the player with the disconnection, it’s saving the rest of the playerbase the hardship of dealing with that player constantly. it’s the quality of life for the majority that’s the priority.
Smurfs gonna smurf. If that’s the only real problem with the system then the proposition is a massive success. Smurfs exist everywhere. To escape them is to avoid any system with ratings and restrictions at all.
As if reporting a bug and waiting was enough when we can’t even have quick match working properly after 3 months. You’re seriously overestimating the dev power of this game.
You couldn’t avoid the option, that’s the point.
A false dilemma ? Yet you reached exactly the conclusion I wanted: you’d like to queue again and avoid that option.
I was not talking about inflation, I was talking about a serious bug that affected matchmaking during 6 months. https://www.reddit.com/r/aoe2/comments/fjo8xj/i_dont_understand_how_the_tg_matchmaking_in_de/
This was officially acknowledged by devs and fixed in June, so ~6 months after DE launch. 6 months during which ALL premade teams had a 10-20% chance to be matched against extremely unbalanced teams. What I mean by this, is, this is not the first time we have to alt-f4 to get out of stupid DE bugs. You can’t just say that a respectable player should never leave, there are exceptions, and this is another exception.
By stability issues I mean that every 3 months there is at least one new DE bug that makes people randomly drop out of match, and now they will get a punishment on top of that with your new system. Examples are random TG crashes 6 months ago, siege tower crashes, people that cannot control their mouse if they start with sheep discovered, etc.
Where did I say that ? Where did I even imply that ? Who’s the one here calling others childish, entitled, snob, talking about respectability when we are discussing about an online game ? I told you that alt-f4 is a technical issue, not a fair-play issue, so can you respect this position and stop adding insults in every single one of your post ? Do you seriously believe 25-50 % of ranked players and all people here who disagree with you have a fair play problem ?
I’m tired of arguing with you. You can’t just say things like “Smurfs gonna smurfs” as if it would magically make the problem disappear. As soon as you introduce Alt-f4 punishments or whatever, people are 100% going to make smurfs to bypass it and this won’t solve Alt-F4 at all. It’s 5 minutes of work to create a smurf account on Steam, wait until people realize that… AAA games have IP checks, phone verification, a support team reading reports to detect smurfing, this game does not, we’re already lucky when a cheater gets banned after 3 weeks of being at 3000 Elo.
It is. bugs take time to fix. complaining about them won’t make them faster.
yes I could. if I couldn’t avoid playing DM I’d learn to or host my own games with friends. That’s what I do for most of my 1,000+ hours in HD and DE.
your point is you trying to create a lose-lose scenario, when you can only see that scenario when you’ve got the wrong mentality. it’s totally a false dilemma and one I’d survive without issues.
oh, so you’re complaining about bugs, conflating it with intended designed mechanics, and complaining about both and acting like they’re the same because you don’t like one of the systems working properly. That’s fine. I don’t like the current system either. I think it causes more problems than the old system. that’s why I agree with the OP.
so, you’re basing your complaint on a problem they fixed? sounds like you’re beating a dead horse. sorry, it’s not going to make your point for you.
so you’re using an infrequent problem that pertains to all patches (find a game without on-patch bugs, you have infinite time to do so, this challenge never expires, good luck) and using that as a reason to say that this specific change (a reversion to an old system, which should be even easier than pushing a new one) will cause bugs. pretty much the same exact argument people used to hate on the new civs with “the balance will get wrecked” and guess what, you don’t need a new set of civs to do that. unrelated at best.
I didn’t. I said from your mannerisms in discussion that it seemed so. you never claimed it. I assume you believe the people who are deciding to send their opponents back through the queue had a very logical reason to do so or else you wouldn’t be defending them to the death.
It’s not. my entire point was that smurfs already exist and literally no system is free of them so I don’t understand what your point is. claiming that smurfs will be a problem is like saying infantry is a unit type. Yeah. it is. You aren’t changing it. Neither is whatever system installed. it’s superfluous and nonsensical to try to attach it to bringing back map bans and getting rid of preferential map picks. that’s like saying the problem with cups is that fluids make them wet. Oh really? What does fluid not make wet and how do we solve the problem? No answer? It’s irrelevant.
Instead of deleting preferred map choice, I think they should add another favorite map with a red star called alt-f4, most hated or least favorite map. If the opponent favorites it, it will be countered by the red star, and if the opponent doesn’t favorite it, it will not be randomly picked. That way you will also feel more guilty if you alt-f4 the most hated map because you know it’s their favorite map. It will also keep the maps more diverse without increasing number of bans.
Is there ever going to be a system set in place for people who alt-F4 after getting a map they don’t like.
Personally, I think players should lose ELO for quitting in the lobby/load screen just as they would have if they quit after the game started. Why should teams who are willing to play any unbanned map suffer through multiple queues due to someone else’s selfishness, while the person who alt-F4 gets away with no repercussions?
This problem has gotten much worse over the last several months and I have had to sit through 5 queues sometimes to get a team game. It ruins the multiplayer experience and it creates terrible stream content (nobody wants to watch lobby simulator).
Comedy gold right there. I personally don’t see the problem but do think it is annoying. Instead of elo loss which then throws stronger crap players into my bracket how about a time ban on lobbing that starts after the 2nd quit and gets progressivly worse ie 1min, 10mins, 15mins, 30 min, 1hr, 1 1/2hr. This allows leniency for poor connection but forces you to accept games or not play for a while.
Elo penalty would be a terrible idea. It will break the ladder even more. So it isnt a solution for the issue.
Time penalty would be a great idea. Like breeminator already mentioned: This kind of penalties are pretty common in online game. So it isnt strange to add them to AoE II DE as well. This idea is already suggested multiple times and i fully support this idea. The exact times of the bans are up to the devs. I also dont mind having 1-2 free quits, just to compensate for real crashes.
Pretty bad ideas floating around in the thread. As long as there are maps that a non-insignificant percentage of people hate playing[1], people will just start games and AFK or instantly resign to avoid the time ban. Then you’ll just have people having artificially lowered ELOs absolutely stomping their competition.
1: This is made even worse by people who play nothing but one map all the time (whichever map that may be)
I fully agree. I am also a lobby dodger myself. I play team games with an IRL friend, having a beer and a laugh. We simply hate certain maps and we just don’t play them because it takes away all the fun. The easiest solution here is to provide more bans.
I don’t mind waiting for 10-15 minutes knowing I will get a map I like. Forcing me to play maps I don’t want to play won’t work because I will just insta resign or alt + f4
Providing more map bans is impossible. If you give a player/team more bans, then there is a chance that every map in the pool is banned between the two teams.
I am working on a detailed suggestion, but I’ve not yet figured out all the details. The TL;DR is that the large part of the solution will be a large incentive for the “one map only” players to actually branch out and play other maps, but I’m still working on the exact how-to proposal.