at most i would go 0.85. nothing more though.
tank for the Hand Cannons. they are also very good against archers.
1 Like
No they arenât. They still need some nerfing.
There are civs out their plenty stronger then khmer are
They may be nerfed after at least 3-4 civs get nerfed. So, imo, after buffing weak civs, underused units like SL, and nerfing Aztecs, Mayans, and Chinese, we can nerf Khmer.
Unless you want to put them in a lower tier as they used to be. Similar issue for people asking nerfs for Teutons and Lithuanians. They do deserve a nerf if you want a balance match vs weak civs like Italians (which deserve a buff btw) and you want an easy win when you play huns vs themâŠ
I know there are but you might want to think about how powerful the Khmer got with so many Ballista Elephants.
Priority -1: berfore change balance of units improve the mechanical of the game
Stop the balances and center in:
1- Mele attack almost always block between same units is really annoying.
2- Hitboxes are really big, when you try clicked to villager always select a build.
3- Pathfinding is a bit poor, the vills blocking between them when you select several vills.
I love the game but the gameplay is weird.
1 Like
This is more important than priority 1 imo. But it is much closer bug fixingâŠ
This is what i would love to tackel your Prios:
Prio 0:
o Italians
-increase italian age up bonus, allow passive to affect all archery range units, reduce dock tech discount
o Vietnamese
-paper maney grants additonaly a gold trickle like 1 relic to the researching player
o Koreans
-wood discount affect all units, so also siege
o Byzanties
-logicsta und elite cata upgrade cost reduced
o Indians (bad in 1v1, highest winrate in teamgames)
-receive non elite battle elefants, but they lose the +1 camel pierce amror
o Portuguese
-worst civ need most changes, but skipped here, in another post that is a page long i went into details, tired to repeat, see long post in Why no squire for Portugal ? It does seem kind of random
Prio 1:
o HC
-receive 5 HP, and 5% accuracy
o Stepp lancer
- Greatly buffed so that they can replace knights.
See the long steplancer discusions thread:
Steppe Lancer civilizations should lose Knights
Cureently it is either better than knights or worse than Hussar. It doesnt really have a relevant enoguh niche (raiding only)
o Longsword and Two handed Swordmen
- Reduced Upgrade Food Cost
Prio 3
o Vikings
-Slighly nerf the viking discount or the dock discount to open the water game up for more civs
(much better than buffingother water civs, is to nerf overperforming top warter civs in my opinion, discusses lesewhere already in detailâŠ)
o Italians
- See italian dock tech nerf and compesated by age up discount above. THis is to make italians less overpowered on water and on the same time improve land game for them.
o Goths (hightest winrate)
- Start with -50 gold (since they got loom) or change the bonus such that loom is researched instatly instead
o Indians (highest winrrate in teamgaes but bad in 1v1)
-see above, lose +1 pierce armor for camels and get non elite battle elefants instead
There are more nerfs i would like to see, but those are even more controversial and i have posted in detail before
- Leithis and Keshiks gold cost inceased by +5 (leithis can stay the same if 2. was introduced thought)
- Lithaunas relic bonus stacks again to 5 and affects light cav again, but the lose blast furnace
- Teutons armor bonus +1/+2 is changed to siege only, iron clad instead grant +1 armor for cav, siege and infatry, including teutonic knights. elite teutonic knights lose 1 meele armor, compensated by iron clads and elite teunic knight tech cost reduced
If anyone cared even to read trough this, thank you. Now go ahead and disagree with me.
1 Like
I think you shouldnât let them get to the point that they hit critical mass with ballistica elephants in a 1v1 game.
1 Like
So a civ doing worse then malians either gets nerfed or gets a worse version of farimba.
1 Like
Currently the civs need immediate updates are Italians, Portuguese, and Turks. Surprisingly, I do not see a common line in the community for turks.
Regarding Italians/Portuguese there is more consensus (especially for Italians):
Italians
- free archer armors
- reduced TT of genoese xbow
- pavise and supplies affecting condos (I am not a huge fun of this but I have to say it may work)
Portuguese
- extended gold discount (to techs)
- buff of organ guns (extra rof)
- University buff (like techs 35% cheaper or similar)
All the other civs do not need urgent buffs/nerfs, even if I agree with several of your proposals.
Water balance is something which is already very good in hybrid maps. In pure water maps, it can be reached either by modifying water specific bonuses of top civs (nerf) or the water specific bonuses of weaker civs (buff).
I have to say that pure water balance is way less important since affecting one map only. Also I like more buffa than nerfs, but recently @Szebo210 has convinced me that also nerfing the top water civs makes sense
2 Likes
I have also thought Turks needed a buff for a long time, but looking at win rates on aoestats.io they are actually not THAT terrible. 24th overall on 1v1 Random Map with a 48.76% win rate. They actually have a 50% win rate in games that go 20-30 minutes but then plummet faster after that. I think what happens is that in Feudal age the Turks are just a basic civ that mines gold really fast. In Castle age, they get one of if not the best value castle age UU and if they scout rushed in Feudal they also get a big power spike with the free Light Calvary upgrade. The problem is that the Turks are literally the worst civ when thereâs no gold, which really kills them in Imperial age, especially in 1v1 games.
I think that they could stand to be both buffed and nerfed at the same time. Perhaps giving them Pikemen and Elite Skirms, but changing the free Light Cav and Hussar upgrade bonus to âLight Calvary and Hussar upgrade is 75% cheaper and researched 75% fasterâ and a slight nerf to Castle age Janissaries.
Alternatively, donât give them Pikemen and Elite Skirms, but instead give their camels the same treatment that Persian Crossbowmen get.
How come their is consensus for Italians. I have seen you state this before.
I donât like free techs handing out. Free a archer armor is not a interesting bonus in my book, but thatâs up to preference.
Passive affects archers original, extending it to condos is weird.
Supplies doesnât affect any UU so far. Why should it affect condos? Itâs very weird to me, then supplies should affect all infrstry UU (which I would not mind at all).
Generally, I donât like buffs that violate intuitivity, it has to make sense and stay coherent.
for example manelukes being classified as cav archers, but throwing axemen are not archers (literally unmounted mamelukes?) these kind of things bother me a lotâŠ
1 Like
because that includes noobs who wait till imp to attack, which helps turks. you want a real judge of how the civs do?
eliminate the two lowest skill groups, who balance never impacts because there is tons of things they could do better.
https://aoestats.io/stats/RM_1v1/1250-1650
45.41%, 5th lowest.
2 Likes
And 1650+ they are 12th lowest. So clearly top players can still win with them too. But that brings up an interesting question. Should the game be balanced around the average player, top players, or dedicated but not necessarily top players?
sample size is incredibly low though. less then 150 games played, 7th lowest play rate of all civs. and 46.9% win-rate is still not good.
i mean you can win with any civ, doesnât mean a civ is balanced. Turks need love. its widely considered so.
it should be balanced around the top, but you also need a good sample size, which is why you watch them over a period of months and notice trends.
having watched turks for months now, i can tell you -
Turks have a low win-rate.
Turks are not played often, and when they are, its usually on Arena or Golden Pit.
Yeah, look I posted on here 6 months ago that Turks need a buff. You donât need to tell me. I just think that you canât just blindly buff or youâll end up with a situation like the Goths had where they went from terrible to OP. The data shows us that Turks are fine up until the late game where their win rate plummets. This is clearly because they have the worst trash units in the game. Addressing this is necessary for the civ, but the buffs have to be focused on their late game weakness. Their castle age pushes donât really need to be buffed at all.
1 Like
completely agree with you here.
youâre 100% right on. the problem is the civ identity is basically all about having weak trash. so the obvious fix (Giving them Pikes + Elite Skirms) means changing their identity. Iâm completely fine with that though.
I agree, and also I think that that identity is kind of silly historically. The Turks historically would be a late game civ in terms of Age of Empires. The Turks became the Ottoman Empire in 1453 and the Ottoman Empire went on to be the largest/strongest empire in the world for a while after that. They were absolutely an Imperial age empire, with their decline starting in the 1800s which is beyond AOE2âs time frame.
they still are an imperial age civ. they arenât a post imperial age running out of gold civ though.
1 Like