The creeping problem of civs that don't require map control

I think if there are 2-3 hunts that can be herded to near your TC, that is considered too much. That is enough for a fast industrial and basically allows you to transition into that turtle eco in record time.

older forms of fast industrial kinda required you to get some map control to secure res to be able to age up. we have seen more and more almost naked FI due to the massive amount of res from the map

i refer to apm only to say if something is easier to do while only offering advantages, thats bad for everyone

yes a torp and a factory are the same. both cost a shipment, locked in age 4, take a deck slot, cannot be rebuilt, and compete with 1600 res+ military shipments.

Because other civilizations need other solutions, and unfortunately, I don’t know them well enough to offer an alternative that I feel comfortable with.

Also, the card does not enable the creation of falconets, please read the modified effect, it changes it for a reason.

What little imagination. XD
They would be useful to have a diversion or best case scenario so you can defend a position, for example the two artillery foundries, mortars are obviously good against infantry and too expensive to waste on an early siege where you don’t we have a large amount of resources and population.

and how does age 2 mortars which can out range tcs and all defensive buildings make it better?

you could just allow euro civs to have age 2 petards instead of needing a card

ive thought for a long time how sad it is that not one single civ since vanilla has gotten a unique petard or grenadier unit.

Arsonists and chakrams come close, but are not unique to a civ or culture

Humbaraçi are the first (but of course it has to be 4.5 speed)

You’re forgetting Fire Throwers. Also Huaracas to some extent.

I dont think you play the game enough

it would basically allow civs like otto who already build artillery foundry and have tp eco to basically siege your base from a safe range defended by jan abus before any culvs could come out.

and the mortars soften enemy formations as well.

when first had the ability to make hurracas in age 2 it basically just turned it into spam hurracas and deletes buildings.

I think it should also enable Monitors in age 3. And it should give a slight discount for artillery upgrades so that the card isn’t totally worthless once you get to age 4.

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Nice contribution, maybe the card should also enable the culverines. :slightly_smiling_face:

Good idea, this way if you fail the siege you still get a reward. :smile:

Besides factories, I think it is worth exploring giving all civs trickles (including Sumptuary Laws and consulate) to the level of Capitalism tricke in villager equivalent.

just recycled hoop throwers circa 2005, lets be honest

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Fair enough, I suppose they were already in the game.

There’s a few options they could go with for new Grenadiers.

Mysorean Rocketeers should be made into an actual unit, not just a jankey Arsonist.

Hungarian Grenadiers could maybe be a bit more distinct.

Mayans had hornet bombs that could be used for a grenadier unit. Could be added to the revolution or a potential Maya civ. It could even have some poison damage.

The funnier part is that Kancha is an extremely random choice to use as a House replacement that, for some reason trickles resources.

Because the actual translation for Kancha is…
drumroll please
Plaza. The Kancha literally is a Community Plaza. It’s not even an obscure word, it became part of regular Hispanoamerican vernacular. If there were a quechua translation of the game (obviously outlandish). The Inca would… have two buildings called plaza.



So its sort of a apartment complex.

Tbh not that crazy as a house replacement, same as how china’s house is a village

Hhahaha, In Spanish we have 2 haciendas (Mx and estates) and 2 corrales (Haud stable and Liv.Pen). Tgis has been reported several times but devs keep them while there are cards that just boost coin or food gathering. @tantalus_dev_team @ms_age_team @fe_dev_team

Please explain which civs can generate anywhere near the passive income generated by Japan shrines or Sweden Torps before age IV (which many games never even get to in 1v1 ranked). Kanchas might actually be ok, I’m not sure, they seem to require a lot of investment to get them up and running, a kancha food bonus card, wood cutting upgrades, etc, and it takes longer for them to go into effect. Maybe. One thing I know is that Inca is a lot weaker than Sweden or Japan.

so crunching the math japanese shrines (assuming kami + toshogu shrine + optimal hunts) produces either (at 20 max)
11.4 f/s or 10.1 wood or coin/s

torps ( assuming blueberry + Engelsberg)
10 f/s & 10.8 coin/s for about 13 mins before it runs out

China can probably match japan’s passive eco by age 3 tbh with the porcelain tower age up (EDIT: 4wood/s) + 1-2 consulate trickle (2 res/s) + summer palace (like 4-6 res/s)

and the torps all things considered ( its about like 35 vils worth of eco) is about on par with say the british house boom but you trade vils that are raidable by cav for torps raidable by pikes.

the thing with swedes now is how easy it is to get going with the boom and they become dangerous for a particular period, basically that 13 mins period where their eco will spike. which you can kinda see in their win rate with 45% of wins within 12-18 mins

that is true for swedes maybe but deflinte not for japan all data points to an inca comeback


Thanks for the data. Well then that explains why China seems so good, I wasn’t aware they get a ridiculous trickle without even requiring ANY buildings other than the wonder!!! That is even worse than Sweden if that’s true. Well at least China doesn’t get CANNONS in age 2 for godsake… I think India has 7 wood trickle from distributism and the logging card as well. Can we notice a trend here? All the ‘easy money’ trickle civs are strong.

its only 3.5.

also while india has been considered good, their trickle has stayed basically the same. their current status has more to do with the changes to the rajput, the karni marta & the otto consulate.

The keyword for china is IF they go for the wonder or research this tech, china’s wonder choices are much more fluid nowadays and most build will not go for it.

Also note that this is the porcelain tower trickle in age 3 only, it doesnt scale by age up or anything so china only get this eco after getting to age 3 and the consulate trickle only occurs if they go german consulate.

The strength of china right now is the flexibility to do a number of different builds and the thing that is rising to the floor right now is not even any eco thing, its the temple of heaven heal power

edit: I remembered wrong on the porcelain tower its 4 woord/s

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