The Cuman Kipchak - An Analysis

because cumans are still a decent civ despite weak kipchak, whereas other civs have been even worse then cumans, and actually need love.

also, kipchak aren’t the only civ with a weak unique unit.

furthermore, kipchaks as a unit are dirt cheap. they are one of only two unique units in the game that do not require gold to upgrade to elite. furthermore it is bar none, the cheapest cav archer in the game.

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Can’t argue that - other civs definitely need more love than the Cumans. That shouldn’t stop us from finding other areas that can be balanced, though. I’m more familiar with the Cumans than the Turks, Italians, Portuguese - so that’s where my balance attention is going at the moment.

A common comparison point is the Plumed Archer, since they’re no gold upgrade as well. Plumes are cheaper, have more damage, 2 more range, more pierce (before Parthian Tactics), have a cheaper Elite Upgrade, and fire considerably faster. Kipchak do have other benefits, yes. But Plumes are universally considered a better unit. Far better, in fact.

Kipchak may be cheap, but they still need a buff. +1 damage would be ideal. More HP would help, so would returning the old firing rate, but it wouldn’t solve the core issue. Cavalry, or high HP targets. It’s not that they should counter cavalry (they don’t) - it’s that Cavalry shred them, even in huge numbers. That doesn’t make sense. Lower fire rate is okay, but it needs more damage. Just enough to be able to fight units with okay pierce armour/hp instead of getting completely decimated.

I’m very familiar with the Kipchak. 1 range would make it counter range better than it does now, and also potentially a better raider, which I’m not sure is the way to go. +1 damage would make it a better unit, and would not be broken. I almost wouldn’t be against giving them bracer, but IMO that gives them too many options. Shouldn’t hold back the Kipchak, though.Look at the Chu Ko Nu! Highest damage of any archer unit in the game, and it actually fires more arrows than the Kipchak. Obviously it costs more gold, but not enough to justify leaving the Kipchak in its current state.

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Cumans are a Paladin civ, and they have faster Paladins, so they will always be good no matter waht, since teh strength of Paladins as a general unit will always carry them.

I don’t think every civ can be perfectly balanced for 1v1 vs every other civ. That is just impossible. I challenge you anytime as Goth vs Mayans.

The game is balancing the use of civs for multiplayer games. The target being to have viable 35 civs for team games, so that each civ is chosen roughly 2-4% of the time, with winrates that are close to 50% across ELO levels. That is a very ambitious target already. 1v1 balancing is harder.

Kipchaks are cheap. Most of the time in team games, you should mass them as fast as you can, without the elite upgrade. Only after you mass them, and you save the resources, you can get the upgrade. Bloodlines, ThumbRing and Parthian tactics are more important at that point. Also, you can mix Kipchaks and Cav Archers for a good mix between cost / HP / production speed. Keep them alive, they are fast, decent attack, but won’t last long.

Many players just stick with the cavalry archer (by going elite), since it can be massed easily, and most games end before lack of bracers starts to bog you down. Only if the game goes longer, and you have at least 3 castles built, that you can switch to Kipchaks.

The unit cost is too low, that buffing it more could prove a bit OP. compare it to archers and you will feel it is too much.

Believe me, cumans are better off with Cav Archers. Mix Kipchaks only in castle age, or the 10 elite ones you get through their unique tech.

then you could go franks? this makes zero sense. you cant give them a weak and sucky unique unit, while they need it.

franks are way better for an knight rush. also magyars i prefere.

also franks outstomp them eco wise, and with cheaper castles.

the thing is franks feel in a good spot, with an good role and with an good flow getting there. and cumans definetlity dont feel that way.

they have way to much weakness.

it really feels that they are dependend for an good game, for massed kipshaks. and this takes way to long, and they are easy countered, and have to low dps.

Cumans are still great for being a Cav Archer + Paladin civ with Castle Age Capped Rams and Feudal Boom.

They are in a good spot.

the only change i would make to cumans is take away Chemistry and give them Bracer.

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they suck. and their unique unit is way to weak. it has low hp, easy to counter, low dps in trash fights even if they shoot mass arrows.

their monks are also weak. they lack bracers, siege engineers. stone walls.

their eco bonus ist mostly an handicap.

you can test and compare it. it is pretty useless. especially in 1v1

if you go feudal tc, you are slower then the enemy in castle age. which is a BIG handicap. why I should go that way?

so you lose the reliq fight. and also the knight or archer battle.

and producing rams as cumans is stupid. I never saw somebody doing it and winning.

they are not aztecs.

I dont need rams, when I have no good units protecting them.

and imp fights are not decided by rams. it is decided by eco and numbers of units.

and who is first imp, and who kills the castles first with triboks.

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Maybe, but even that I do not think they need.

Though the novelty factor of having a civ without Chemistry, I would like, even though it would also be a nerf to their ranged Siege.

but buffs their kipchaks without having to change anything else. and frankly they already have super stellar siege as is.

True.
They are supposed tio mainly have Rams anyway, and would also help their defenses.

Cumans have defenses?

Weakest defenses in the entire game, 11.

Their Palisades are a lot stronger, that does actually help, but yeah. They have “defenses”.

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i honestly think their team bonus might be the weakest in the game. not a fan of palisade walls.

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Watchtowers and Castles.

Believe it or not, Watchtowers with Bracer and Heated Shot are still great at killing Ships.

They are tied with Goths, for the most part.

it was sarcasm because they lack anything beyond watch towers, they don’t have anything beyond palisade walls, etc.

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oh sorry. i lied. there is another thing i would change about cumans.

turn the SL into an actually decent raiding unit.

I know, but you would be surprised at how many people do not Wall as Cumans, when it is a perfectly valid dellaying tactics, that is also pretty cheap.
Coastal defenses benefit more from range than damage too, but I think they and Goths should also get Arrowslits, as both of them already have weak Towers, and Arrowslits are perfect for a minor defense buff.

It is.

give it bonus damage to villagers.

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