Vills already get mowed down by them as it is, and it is very difficult to escape SLs getting into your resources.
this is true, but they are awfully expensive for a unit that is only good at raiding. thus why i would give them bonus damage vs monks, siege, and villagers.
1 Like
the civ should atleast stomp hard offensively, if they lack bracers, bombard canons, siege engineers and all defenses. and they actually dont stomp.
they got palas. so what?
magyars are 5 times better. they can better knight rush. have 9 range cav archers. are more flexible. easier to prdduce. and have the best trash unit in game.
why I should pick cumans?
they suck at anything.
an pala only civ is not really good.
giving kipshaks one damage, is an fast and easy fix for their main weakness in 1v1.
and they are to weak at the moment.
in team games they are fine, if they get paladins. and thats it…
but this is nothing special.
I could see a bonus vs Siege, but Vills already melt to them, and Scouts have the anti-Monk role.
and i’d give them bracer. for chemistry. gives your kipchaks more range.
and they literally get feudal rams, and castle age capped rams.
how so? speed > attack. that bonus attack only lasts until you research your attack upgrades. your speed bonus is PERMANENT.
8 range. 4 base, 3 from fletching/bodkin/bracer, and 1 from recurve.
and thats only 1 more then what i would put cumans at.
they can literally mass their CA faster then Magyars can.
Paladins, Cav Archers, Siege Rams and Onagers…
except you know, pumping out raw numbers. and if you think that sucks, i present you goths.
oh, and they get fully upgraded paladins that are faster then any other paladin in the game.
they also can boom faster then other civs, and have solid siege.
1 Like
Castle Age Capped Rams and Knights with the effect of Husbandry for free + a mounted Chu Ko Nu.
Cumans were made to cripple the opponent in the Castle Age, not win Imperial fights (which they still can do, because they have Paladins).
This is why they can get a second TC and the Siege Workshop in Feudal, they are a Knight + Ram rush civ that is supposed to win in Castle, and they often do.
Cumans are supposed to Boom in Feudal, and strike out hard as soon as they hit Castle, while other civs are busy booming, and will lack units to defend against fast Knights and Capped Rams.
Skirms are supposed to hard counter all Archers. Kipchaks are still one of the best raiding units in Castle, and one of the few Cav Archers that can actually destroy Siege and Buildings.
Cumans have a 50% winrate, so this theory checks out.
https://aoestats.io/civ/Cumans/RM_1v1/1650+
No, they have Knights with free Husbandry, and Capped Rams in the Castle Age.
No, it is also good in Castle Age, as it amounts to free Husbandry.
Not by the stats, Cumans have 50% flat inrate, hile Magyars have 48.45%.
https://aoestats.io/civ/Magyars/RM_1v1/1650+
You can also do this as Cumans.
Then you should have 0 problem with Cumans and Turks too, since they have the same general philosophy: Rush Civ.
Ad Hominem.
You are, you just do not like what you hear. Numbers are on my side.
No we are not, we do not decide what gets to happen in patches.
There’s a lot of info in there, but he IS right about the Kipchak. You have to use the civ to understand. It’s not a great unit. It’s a ton of fun, and a good harasser, but it really does need more. Cumans don’t get much more than Paladin and siege. While also having no defenses, a really bad navy, no supplies anymore so infantry isn’t a great option even with Champion…and I would NOT call them a CA civ. They don’t get bracer, so nope. Not without full archery range upgrades (including Chemistry) would I say they get good CA.
+1 damage to CA in Imperial. That’s what they need.
1 Like
skirms counter all archers, this is nothing new. if you’re fighting kipchacks against skirms, thats YOUR failing.
no, they really don’t. look at huns. what makes them good? Paladins + cav Archers.
knight rush? yes. knights in general? not even close. once you got your attack upgrades researched, cuman knights > Magyar Knights.
you mean starting in castle age, when you have 15% to their 10%.
ehh, not really. the magyars have a better late castle and early imp. outside of that? Cumans win.
how? they don’t have paladin, their siege is inferior. literally the only thing they have that is better is their cav archers.
except they aren’t population efficient, they have horrible archers, they have mediocre cavalry and crap siege.
Goths are literally a one trick pony. the Flood. Heck, Cuman Champions beat Goth Champions one on One.
both civs get techs that allow them to spam out lots of units in a short period of time. Goths get Perfusion, and Cumans get Steppe Husbandry.
both lack defenses and rely on vastly different playstyles from the norm.
yes, they got 2 more range, you are absolutely right. which is 8 range, not 9, like you claimed.
and if i had my way, cumans would have bracer, making the difference only 1 range.
but go ahead and insult me, instead of recognizing what i said.
this is what you said.
magyar cav archers are not 9 range.
this is what i responded with
notice where i said “THATS ONLY ONE MORE THEN WHAT I WOULD PUT CUMANS AT”
the bold is the important part.
eitehr way, still don’t have 9 range, despite your claims.
coming from the person who calls others 13 year old virgins without considering what they actually said, and thinks magyars have 9 range cav archers, you surely know what you’re talking about.
1 Like
I think they need to lose Chemistry, and get Bracer.
and cav archers.
so i guess mongols aren’t a good cavalry archer civ because they lack the final armor upgrade huh?
I’ll trade you chemistry for bracer.
1 Like
Cumans have fully upgraded paladins, giving them fully upgraded cav archers on top of solid siege would just be way too strong.
1 Like
I’d take that over what they have, for sure.
I also don’t think they should get fully upgraded CA. But I think damage is what they need, not range.
As for Mongols, they have 25% faster firing. That’s massive, on top of the Mangudai which have crazy high damage on their own.
1 Like
the problem with the kipchak is you can’t really give them damage considering they are so cheap.
seriously, the unit costs 35 gold and the upgrade costs ZERO GOLD.
1 Like
Range is generally better than Damage, since Range gives you more time to apply attacks, and therefore deal more damage.
Plumed Archers are one of the best in the game and the upgrades don’t cost gold, and Mayans get them really cheap on top of that.
I think range could make them too strong versus other ranged units. The micro potential would be even stronger. But I can’t say for sure. I know that damage would fix their weak spots from my actual in-game experience.
2 Likes
They have a multiattack, so damage would be an overbuff for Kipchaks.
For regular Cav Archers, Bracer is much more important than Chemistry, because +1 Range is huge.
The damage only affects the first arrow. I don’t think it would be too strong.
Range would definitely help their regular CA though, and make them (and Steppe Husbandry) more viable.
1 Like
yeah but they don’t move nearly as fast as kipchaks, they don’t fire multiple arrows, and they actually cost more gold then kipchaks do.
also, the Mayans literally have like 5 core army units that are viable. that’s it. Arbs, Skirms, Pikes, Eagles and Plumes. that’s there entire toolkit.
Also if you look at winrates, Cumans Get better as the game goes on, while Mayans drop off a cliff after the 40 minute mark.
i do agree cumans need something to get to them a little bit better, the problem is how to do it without breaking them in the late game.
1 Like
I am not against buffing Cumans, they do need a little help.
the problem with buffing them is that they get better the later the game goes, so you have to give them just enough umph to get their, without breaking their late game.
here is why buffing the kipchak is such an issue.
if it becomes a good solid unit, that makes it a huge boon in the late game where the unit is literally 35 gold, at a time gold is at a premium.
And frankly the only place where the winrate looks terrible for Cumans is <1k ELO.
1 Like