They do get masonry and also hoardings for castle. Which are standard defenses on most maps
Which are all late game techs and its not a big deal, some civs are supposed to be crap on water
Not a big deal once imp hits where halbs can force an engagement
which they should give back
Except its no small buff, its a design overhaul
Well, I stand corrected. I had their Tech Tree open when I typed the comment, but missed Masonry.
Still have weak defenses, and if you give them Bracer but take Chemistry, they will still have the same damage, just 1 more Range.
They would still be bad on Water regardless, as no CG and no Dry Dock is already terrible, but no Shipwright is killer.
Heavy Camels are better than Halbs at fighting Cavalry, which is why they cost Gold.
I do not agree. I think it was a good choice to take Supplies away from a few civs, and some more could lose it too.
I disagree again. In the end, it is just +1 Range, and it will affect Cav Archers and Elite Skirmishers more than Kipchaks.
which is not small like you want to sell it
I really don’t care about water aoe2 so I don’t wanna talk about it. Also I can name a few other civs who are just as bad on water but are decent elsewhere
They’re only good at chasing cavalry. In imp you can limit the mobility play by going aggro yourself and placing castles in appropriate postitions. Halbs still have the larger bonus damage, camels only have the HP and slightly better attack rate. Regardless FU fast Paladins, 2x faster produced FU Hussars and Steppe lancers and the option of camels in castle age which many cav civs don’t have
literally what reason? oh because they look like cavalry and archer civs more, better remove the infantry tech. It doesn’t make sense. Goths and Eagles don’t need buffs
You can disagree all day, 1 range makes and breaks archers and skirms
Infantry is the worst unit type, and Infantry civs need all teh love tehy can get. The only ones taht seem to be doing exceptionally well are the Goths and the Teutons, but because the first has it’s Flood strategy, and the latter has Paladins.
The flood still wins against supplies champs in an open map and supplies infantry don’t counter Teuts anyway
The evidence says Cumans are bad, but it also says the Kipchak is fine, very gold efficient.
The Cumans’ biggest issue appears to be the <20 minutes games - their eco bonus will not have kicked in. How about giving them some extra wood and buffing their scouts (either a bonus vs spears, or extra armor vs anti-cav attacks)?
Very interesting thoughts all over the place. 
Even though I still very much doubt giving the Cumans bracer would suddenly change them from being arguably the weakest civ. in the game right now to OP, the implications without other parallel changes could indeed prove damaging overall, especially in regard to the kipchak’s cost and very fast trained CA.
To remove chemistry in exchange for bracer is an outside-the-box idea, considering everybody has chemistry at the moment, but then, every civ. with an archer UU had bracer until DE, so why not. I would support this idea. Of the non-Meso civs, only the Huns and Cumans lacked every gunpowder unit and only the latter even bracer. So this exchange chemistry-bracer would be truly unique. 
Giving the effect of bracer just to the kipchak also seems a good idea to me. As said before, I would support, to offset this buff, changing the kipchak’s gold cost or even introducing a gold price in the elite upgrade.
I see the Cumans, especially because of their lack of walls, as a Goths-like civilization one has to beat before they reach their full potential. Buffing therefore their early game isn’t therefore the solution imo.
They are not the weakest civ by a longshot. In fact, they are balanced right no.
Doing much better than Khmer, for example.
That is in all ELOs, not in 1650+, which is what is actually taken into account for balancing.
By the way, 46.54% winrate is still balanced.
Their cav archers don’t benefit from Steppe Husbandry anymore.
when did that change come through?
according to this they still do, its just not 80% faster anymore. there UU doesn’t benefit, but Cav Archers, SL, and Scouts do
my bad. Thought Steppe lancers replaced Cavalry archers in that bonus.
no problem, everyone makes mistakes, i was just confused for a second, wanted to make sure i didn’t miss something.
These win rates don’t actually imply the quality of a civ unless the pick rates are same. Like for instance Malians have highest win rate in 1650+ but it doesn’t mean they’re an OP civ because their pick rate is an abysmal 0.97%, which means they’re specifically picked on 1 or 2 maps while Aztecs, Mayans with >6% pick rate and 50+% win rate are versatile and a lot stronger.
If you take a look at the pick rate and win rate combined, Cumans are quite weak in 1v1 1650+ games. Maybe if there’s a place to check TG stats, they might have slightly better pick rates but looks like they’re one of the worst for 1v1s on most maps.
My opinion is give Cumans bracer but remove CA from Steppe Husbandry benefits list. That might be an interesting change. And if they seem OP against other ranged units (which I don’t think they will), perhaps remove ring archer armor.
those numbers from a few days ago have since changed, and the most current lists show the new patch data, which doesn’t have a whole lot too it. I agree that you have to factor in more then just win-rates, but if you got a good enough sample size, then yeah win-rates can tell a lot about a civ. personally though, i don’t think we should have monthly balance updates. i think we should go more like 3 months so we have more raw information.
no matter what you do though, you will always have popular civs. Mayans and Aztecs literally just got nerfed, and yet they remain popular.
I think this would reduce Steppe Husbandry to pretty much uselessness.
Probably why you think huns and cuman have nothing in common… But wait they do… They both spam cheap but not top tier cav archers and light cav…
Oh obviously we’re mistaken and cuman have more in common with Koreans because they start with the same k sound rolls eyes
Cuman CA don’t get Bracer. Typically if you get a castle up, you want to mass Kipchak, not suboptimal CA. Unless you need a ton of CA (and have the eco to back it), or a backup ranged unit if you lose Castles, Steppe Husbandry is typically used only for Light Cavalry.
You very rarely see Cuman CA.
