I’m bouncing back and forth
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Since the condottiero’s buff last month, that UU now also changes to the second-best counter tier (see https://youtu.be/iQTXkEBlCh4?t=300).
That leaves the kipchak winning cost-effectively against just 4 of the other 40 UUs…
Microing in big imperial battles is tough. You can’t always babysit kipchaks when your attention is seeked everywhere, all across the map.
Especially the condottiero hurts, since it’s the co-4th fastest infantry unit (co-2nd fastest if Celt), so a short moment of inattention and the barracks UU destroys the kipchaks.
The attack of the elite kipchak should therefore imo be upgraded by one. As I pointed out back in April and there’s a thread about it right now, the Cumans are execrable on water, arguably the worst in the game (see Cumans navy unfairly weak?). They should therefore excel on land maps! Average’s not good enough. That just makes it a weak civ. overall.
in all honesty these videos are complete garbage when it comes to balance though… if you cant baby sit your kipchaks as you call it then you pull them out of danger, 95% of their power hinges on micro they certainly are not the 5th worst UU by far. i hate these videos for the completely skewed impression they give. look how high the TK is favoured, and not a chance is it realistically that good…
the only reason kipchaks need a dmg buff is due to cuman performance vs heavy cav and possibly CA civs. you either need to 1:1 paladins which is situationally impossible when we consider the eco bon bons other civs have, or they need to increase the performance of the kipchak…
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they do have FU halb+ decent siege
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Not to mention that they have speed-boosted Paladin.
In the end it’s a 5% speed boost once husbandry is taken into account which is not really significant. It’s only very noticeable against the Teutons which have the +2 armor in exchange
The siege is solid but they really need Siege Engineers to make up for the garbage archery range without bracer and arbalest and lack of bombard cannon
Regular Kipchak is likely in a decent spot but think Elite Kipchak needs something like +1 attack to make it more impactful late game
They really rely on Paladins which makes them kind of boring late game. That being said, they are in a generally good spot from a win rate perspective so maybe it’s fine for now
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Still, Cumans can respond to Heavy Cavalry with their own Heavy Cavalry, which is even better than FU, if ever so slightly.
All Paladin civs are boring lategame. Just Paladins and Trash.
But that’s the point… There are situations where they cannot…
Frank paladins train faster and are stronger, with a better eco, with bbc they can force a fight.
Teuton paladins are stronger with a better eco and bbc can force a fight. Their champs or even their own halbs will beat cuman halbs and they have better siege.
Huns have a faster boom, with faster training paladins and cheaper/better CA…
Persians might have equal paladins but their eco is better and have heavy camels. And wait for it… Better siege 
They they have the Halberdier.
What about all those civs without Heavy Cavalry or Camels? Same thing.
Cuman late-game potential is still very good. It’s not because they haven’t a surefire way to win against top-tier late game civs (I mean you’re complaining about Teutons, which are the civ with palas+BBC+BBT, doesn’t it screams “lategame” to you?) that they are bad. In this regard they are a bit like Huns: they have a small yet quite good tech tree thanks to their military options.
In team games Cuman are just as good as those on this list, as your teammates can protect you while you feudal boom. In 1v1 Cuman can’t count on this but they are such a better civ early game and still quite good late-game that there isn’t much to complain about.
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omfg seriously…
you didnt say “respond to HC with their own HC and halbs”
It is what a lot of civs that lack Heavy Camel have.
This is arguably the weakest cavalry bonus of The Last Khan’s civs. Compared to +25% attack rate? +1-4 damage with relics?
Meh.
Cumans get a good early game, yes; but even with a slightly buffed Kipchak (I’m still in favor of +1 to all Cuman CA in Imperial Age) they still have lackluster siege, no defenses, no navy, no bracer.
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+25% attack rate but lost Paladin, and the Relics bonus was not only nerfed, but can even be denied.
Cumans are supposed to win in Feudal and Castle Ages, which is why they have a weak, but functional, Imperial Age.
People should only play Cumans if they are comfortable with always rushing.
Mongols with their iconic cavalry archer UU are (very) strong in every age. In dark age thanks to their scouting and hunting bonus. In feudal age still thanks to their scouting and hunting bonus. In castle age thanks to their mangudai alone, not to mention their other strong options, including the co-richest stable in the game (better than Persians). And finally, absolutely top-tier in imperial age thanks to their “holy trinity [of] siege, elite mangudai and hussars” (see http://www.cysion.be/aocbox/?p=908).
Why can’t Cumans be a bit stronger? Their navy will still be the worst, their university terrible, just like their monks, their siege onagers - assuming they get that far -, will still get outranged by simple onagers with SE, and they still won’t even have walls! Not to mention of course missing bracer or any gunpowder unit… In fact, without paladins, the Cumans would probably get rolled over by almost any any civ. in imp…
Cumans only shine in Castle Age (and early imp.). But they definitely don’t shine in Feudal Age, where they are in fact very vulnerable as they try to boom with their 2nd TC taking almost twice as much time to build as a castle. That is, of course, if one doesn’t try to achieve the YOLO strat of TC&Ram douche, that’s actually very hard to pull off (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yP3kN8WldaY).
How could +1 atk for the elite kipchak possibly make the Cumans op again?
Finally, whereas the strongest civ. at the moment sits at 54+ % winrate (Franks, see https://aoestats.io/), Cumans, far behind, still fail to win at any point in the game, even when they are at their peak, which is kind of odd.
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This is wrong.
Mongols miss Paladin and Plate Barding Armour, you would never make ESL or Cavalier as Mongols, without Plate Barding.
The 30% HP bonus helps with Hussars, but not with ESL. Any unit that costs Gold, it is usually better to have extra Armour than extra HP, unless it is something like +50% HP or more.
Also, at 47% winrate, this would be considered balanced.
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Please stop using all elo for balance discussions - we should be looking at high elo which in this case we have 1650+ elo games. Granted there are sample size issues which need to be considered but Cumans have looked fine for the recent 3 patches and see good amount of play in tournaments so they are in relative good shape.
I do agree that +1 attack for Elite Kipchaks is fine given they seem to fall off a bit too hard given the rest of the archery range is bad without bracer. But there’s really no reason to look at all elos for purposes of using win rates for balance discussions
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According to 1650+, Cumans may actually be a bit OP.
So if you look at 1650+ then Japanese are struggling at high levels and need a buff despite being perfectly balanced 
Too small a sample size for realistic analysis
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