imo input latencies should’ve been a dead giveaway of engine maybe not being best suited for a game like this, pop limits due to as you point out extensive calculations and physics (which makes perfect sense for COH for instance) just compound that problem even further
essence has its strenghts no doubt, but aoe4 uses basically none of them, and suffers from areas that were compromised back when engine was first written
Your entire post feels very, uh, generative. To say the least.
Anyhow, they rewrote the terrain renderer back in S5 (I think?), added better shadows and AO. So no, the entire engine doesn’t have to be rewritten to solve any given problem.
However, pathfinding is difficult, and most solutions tend to have trade-offs or consequences.
Losing the input latency causes trade-offs elsewhere. Maybe you’re used to them, maybe you don’t notice them, but they will exist.
It’s not like people liked excessive input delay in Relic’s games historically. Folks adapted, for sure. And there were less complaints then than there are now, when it comes to people with 2025 hardware. We notice these things more. I notice them more. Standards have changed (and this isn’t exactly a bad thing).
It was incredibly noticeable in DoW II, which is why it was a big relief when they improved it substantially for Retribution (DoW II’s final and standalone expansion). CoH 3 and AoE IV I would say are even more responsive than Retribution (which I’ve been playing a fair bit of recently, even if the campaign has some truly rage-inducing missions on Primarch difficulty).
Is it still noticeable compared to a different kind of engine? Sure. It’s why it’s going to be interesting if / when a new engine arrives for any future AoE game. Because you can guarantee Bang also has limitations. Even the DE version will.
(we’re also ignoring tick rate, which is often the reason why things can feel sluggish - and it isn’t tied to the command queue - but nobody here is familiar enough with Essence, so it doesn’t get talked about)
Very alarmist. There’s a good game at its core, the problem in my eyes is that they simply gave up high effort on it too soon. It was published underbaked lacking a whole plethora of features, and was only given two expansion packs that add new and proper content before just throwing in the towel with low effort variants.
As for its engine, I think Relic’s engine for AOE4 is pretty decent. More importantly, the developers have utilized it well in achieving a good sense of game feel unlike AoE3, AoM and AoE2 which feel unwieldy and “off”. The solutions to pathfinding, unit collision, movement and hit registers feel the best out of any Age of Empires game in my opinion. And the engine has shown a lot of promise, but what seems to hold it back is the amount the studio has been willing to invest into the project.
The game feels reliable, moreso than most RTS games. The amount of bugs I do encounter seem to have something to do with bad programmers or a lack of time given to said programmers to actually iron them out.
The tools are all there. Engine is hardly a point of discussion in relation to AoE4. Execution is what matters, and their execution has been an upward struggle for half a decade now with a lack of interest from the higher ups to give it that push it needs.
??? What kind of nonsense is this? I have no idea what you’re talking about. Also, I didn’t even reply to you — don’t just butt into the conversation on your own. I honestly don’t know what you’re trying to say. And as for that whole “subjective or objective” thing, I think you’re just talking nonsense.
？？？？？？？i dont get it ??? ~~~~~~~~~ ?? what terrain renderer??? Lighting and shadows… What on earth are you even talking about? Before you jump into the conversation, shouldn’t you at least understand the context first??? Instead of talking down to me like some elder saying, “You’re being too subjective.” What kind of nonsense is that??? Can you please stop wasting my time???
Sigh — could you all please stop jumping into conversations at will? Could you at least figure out who I’m replying to and what we’re actually discussing? When I casually sighed that Relic ruined AOE4 and that AOE4 is beyond saving, I wasn’t talking to someone out of context — and for the love of God, try to interpret what I’m saying in context. What I meant was: because of engine issues — especially if you compare AOE4 and COH3 using the same engine and how it’s been used and performs — AOE4 hasn’t made good use of the engine, so its future extensibility is worrisome. As for the benefits you mentioned, please, take a look at the whole discussion thread and see what I’ve been arguing with others about. And what good is your comment anyway? No matter how great you say the AI in AoE4 is, it still has no tactical dynamism or map-interactive behavior. Regarding pathfinding, I literally just replied to someone about this today and they haven’t answered yet. Please read the whole discussion carefully — we’ve already covered this; you don’t need to repeat the same stuff.
I’m talking about game engine tech.
The thing you were talking about?
This is the reason why World’s Edge Is moving to Unreal Engine
I don’t think you even read what the whole discussion was actually about.
The AI still has many flaws…
However, it reacts in some way on certain maps, due to some tactical possibilities and interaction with the terrain for some strategic use.
Obviously, it’s far from ideal.
Patch 24916 ----> AI will now detect some map choke points (including river crossings and bridges) and will build Outposts and Keeps in these areas to control them.
NOTE: If this were applied in Company of Heroes 3, it would have worked well; instead of castles, there would be bunkers or anti-tank defenses. However, in AoE4, it’s strange to leave the castles “loose” without the additional protection of a wall.
As I said before…
I think the only way to make AI more interesting…
Is for the developers to create “personalities” for them…
And for the player to choose how they want to face the AI…
Choosing an AI that builds walls, or a more aggressive one, or a more tactical one, and so on.
I don’t particularly favor overly advanced AI, as it might lead game designers to secretly use it in PVP matches, which would undermine the competitive integrity.
Sure I did. You were talking about the engine, Relic’s use of it, and how it allegedly constrains the potential of IV because it apparently needs a complete overhaul to do anything remotely well.
You literally said “because of engine issues — especially if you compare AOE4 and COH3 using the same engine and how it’s been used and performs — AOE4 hasn’t made good use of the engine, so its future extensibility is worrisome”.
My point was “they’ve extended and redeveloped parts of the engine before”. How much do you know about game engine extensibility? You talk about “what you found isn’t exactly good news”. How did you find said news? What are your sources?
it true , this is the better way to improve the AI effects , because of most of issues belong to the Engine source , so it have some limits , unless they keep working and get the job done i think .
