The First Step Toward a Better Three Kingdoms DLC: Reworking Historical Identity Through Renaming

The First Step Toward a Better Three Kingdoms DLC: Reworking Historical Identity Through Names

Quick Summary

The problem with the AoE2 Three Kingdoms DLC isn’t that it can’t be fun. The problem is whether the current design truly represents the weight of the Three Kingdoms as a historical theme.

The Three Kingdoms era is more than just three famous names. Players expect Wei, Shu, and Wu to represent the military traditions, cultures, and identities behind those states.

As a long-time Koei Tecmo community member with nearly 20 years of experience managing related game discussions, I understand how important this historical theme is to many players.

We want to play the Three Kingdoms, not civilizations that only use Three Kingdoms names and appearances.

A complete redesign would require time and resources. However, the first step doesn’t need to begin with balance changes or DAT modifications.

At the current stage, simply changing civilization names, technology names, hero names, and historical descriptions could already improve the experience.

This wouldn’t affect current balance, gameplay, or the existing ecosystem.

Modders can already create TXT replacement packages themselves. However, an official change has a different meaning.

A player mod changes an individual’s experience. An official change defines how the game itself presents these civilizations to everyone.

Larger discussions, such as DLC restructuring or splitting content, can come later. The important thing is to start with the simplest and least disruptive improvements first.

Renaming alone will not solve every issue with the Three Kingdoms DLC.

However, it carries symbolic value. It acknowledges that the current historical identities don’t fully match the existing gameplay, while opening the door for a more authentic Three Kingdoms redesign in the future.

Wei → Xianbei

Wei is the clearest example of the current identity problem.

The issue isn’t that a cavalry-focused civilization can’t exist. The issue is that the name and the gameplay identity don’t match.

The current design focuses on cavalry, mounted archers, and mounted combat. At the same time, it lacks parts of the armor technology line and uses unique technologies to compensate for some defensive ability.

This can work from a gameplay balance perspective.

However, under the name “Wei,” players naturally ask why.

Wei is usually associated with a centralized state, organized military forces, and large-scale administration.

The current design feels much closer to a northern cavalry civilization: strong mobility, strong mounted warfare, but a different equipment tradition.

In fact, the current design already hints at this direction. The Wei unique Cavalry Archer unit is called the Xianbei Raider, which suggests that the civilization’s gameplay identity is already influenced by Xianbei military traditions.

The problem isn’t that the current mechanics can’t work. The problem is that a civilization named Wei needs additional explanation for why it fights this way.

The problem is that a civilization named Wei needs additional explanation for why it fights this way.

If the same design were presented as Xianbei or Western Xia, it would immediately make more sense.

A northern horse-based civilization could naturally emphasize cavalry skills and mounted combat without having the same armor development as a centralized Chinese dynasty.

Technology names could also be adjusted.

For example, “Ming Guang Armor” could become something like “Mounted Combat,” representing a fighting tradition rather than a specific piece of equipment.

Likewise, “Tuntian” could be renamed to something like “Hunting and Gathering” for a nomadic civilization.

This doesn’t mean nomadic peoples lacked supply systems. They simply maintained armies through different methods.

Hero names could also be changed to figures matching this identity, such as Tuoba Gui (拓跋珪), Gao Huan (高歡), or Yuwen Tai (宇文泰).

These changes would not require DAT modification.


Shu → Dali

Shu could also be reconsidered.

Some parts of the current design, especially regional culture, religion, and support abilities, may fit Dali more naturally.

The Duan (段氏) royal family and Buddhist traditions would make support-oriented heroes and healing abilities easier to understand.

This doesn’t mean rejecting Shu. It means finding a historical identity that better matches the existing mechanics.


Wu → Liang Dynasty (Southern Liang)

Eastern Wu has a southern identity, including naval power and combined arms between different unit types.

However, the current design’s strongest features lean heavily toward cavalry, while the archer side is less complete.

This creates a gap between what players expect from Wu and what the civilization actually plays like.

The Liang Dynasty provides a more natural connection.

Although Liang was also a southern state, it had famous elite cavalry traditions, especially through Chen Qingzhi (陳慶之) and the White Robe Army.

Chen Qingzhi is remembered for highly mobile campaigns and elite cavalry operations.

Replacing the current hero with Chen Qingzhi would make the existing cavalry bonuses and movement-focused abilities much easier to understand.

Players familiar with Chinese history would recognize the connection, while others would still understand him as an elite cavalry commander.


Future True Three Kingdoms Rework

Repositioning the current civilizations doesn’t mean removing the Three Kingdoms.

Instead, it creates space for a future Three Kingdoms design that truly reflects Wei, Shu, and Wu.

The current version can still have value, but it should not limit future possibilities.

Age of Empires has already shown that existing content can be reconsidered.

AoE3 DE is an example. It originally focused on maintaining the existing game, but later received new civilizations, DLC, and major content updates.

The split of the Indian civilization into multiple civilizations also showed that existing civilization identities can be reconsidered.

The Inca rework showed that large-scale civilization redesign is possible.

Reworking content doesn’t mean the previous version had no value.

Being imperfect doesn’t mean failure, but if problems can’t be acknowledged, meaningful improvement becomes difficult.

The Three Kingdoms theme itself carries too much weight, and the current design has not fully realized its potential.

And the first step could be as simple as changing the names.

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How about “Wuyue” or “Jiangnan(ese)”? When written in Latin script, the word “Liang” looks just like the dynasties in Gansu corridor on the opposite end of medieval China, and it could be confusing to players not accustomed to Chinese history.

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That’s a good point. “Liang Dynasty” could be confusing for players unfamiliar with Chinese history because there were also several Liang (涼) states in northwest China.

I will specify it as Southern Liang (Liang Dynasty) (南朝梁) in the article to avoid confusion. My main reason for choosing Southern Liang is the connection with Chen Qingzhi and the White Robe Army, which helps explain the current cavalry-focused design.

A clearer Jiangnan(The region south of the Yangtze River)-related identity could also be considered, but the main idea is finding a name that better matches the existing gameplay.

A clearer name such as Southern Liang or another Jiangnan-related identity could also work.

“Dali” is also a political name. The correct term for the cultural group would be Bai or Baiyi.

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Thank you for pointing this out. I agree that the distinction between a political entity and a cultural group is important.

Personally, I think “Dali” is a very recognizable name for many players. When people see “Dali,” they can immediately associate it with the Yunnan region and its historical context, which makes it a strong choice from a game design perspective.

However, your point is also valid: “Dali” primarily refers to a historical political entity, while Bai or Baiyi would represent a cultural group more directly. If the purpose is to represent a cultural identity rather than a political entity, then changing the name to a more accurate term could be a reasonable improvement.

This is also why I think civilization names in AoE2 are worth discussing. A civilization name isn’t just a label; it shapes how players understand the identity behind it. Similar to my suggestion for the Three Kingdoms civilizations, the goal isn’t to force one specific replacement name, but to improve the connection between the name, historical identity, and gameplay representation.

Wei → Xianbei might be workable, but the other two really don’t work in my opinion. You’d have to change Shu so much to make it fit the Bai that you might as well just introduce the Bai as their own civ instead. And personally, I don’t think we need a southern Han Chinese civ anyway.

The ideal solution would be to move them into their own dedicated Three Kingdoms spin-off mode, where the entire game is built around the 3K setting, and get reworks for better accuracy. That would also allow factions like the Yellow Turbans, Dong Zhuo’s forces, Yuan Shao’s forces, and others to become fully fledged civilizations. Renaming them to keep them in the base game feels like an awkward compromise rather than a proper solution.

I’d much rather see the Xianbei and the Bai properly designed and released as their own civs than see them used as a coat of paint over a design people already dislike.

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Yeah, the Heroes and time period wouldn’t hurt as much if the 3K were a separate mode like Chronicles. On the other hand, you’d probably need to create three new ranked civs with very similar tech trees and give them for free to players who own 3K, otherwise they’d be mad about loosing competitive civs.

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I agree that the Three Kingdoms is such an iconic setting that it deserves a more detailed and lively representation. If it eventually grows into its own dedicated mode with more factions and better historical accuracy, I would see that as a very positive direction.

My proposal is simply a compromise based on the current AoE2 framework. Renaming is the least disruptive change. It doesn’t require redesigning civilizations or changing gameplay, but it can still improve how their historical identities are presented.

If a larger rework ever becomes possible, I would absolutely welcome it.

I think this is a very good point. A dedicated Three Kingdoms mode would definitely solve many problems and allow the setting to be represented in a much deeper way.

The main reason I suggested renaming as a first step is because it’s a much smaller change within the current AoE2 framework. Moving civilizations out of Ranked would create many additional balance and player expectation issues, especially for people who bought the DLC expecting new competitive civilizations.

A full Three Kingdoms mode would probably be the ideal solution, but renaming is a more realistic compromise that could improve historical identity without requiring such a large restructuring.

I remember another Chinese user who posted that Bai/Dali armies were quite different from the Sichuanese – they relied on skirmishers rather than archers, and had elephants. So while aesthetically the Shu UU and Castle skins look like Dali, their tech tree isn’t ideal. A custom Dali campaign I played replaced some Shu units with a variety of elephants and had other adjustments to their tech tree to fit the area (the Mule Cart for example)

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That’s a very good point. A proper Bai/Dali civilization would definitely require deeper changes, including units and the technology tree.

I suggested renaming as a practical compromise, not as a perfect solution.

It’s more of a compromise under the current AoE2 framework. A full redesign would be better, but it’d also create many issues with Ranked balance and existing players.

Renaming keeps the current competitive structure while giving the Three Kingdoms theme more room for future improvement.

It’s a first step rather than the final solution.

Now that I think of it however, some civs received much bigger changes through reworks than swapping a couple units to their elephant versions. Perhaps the Shu rework into Bai/Dali wouldn’t be as radical as it seems.

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I think it would be better to approach this in two stages.

First, we should properly establish the identity of the existing civilizations. For example, Bai/Dali, Xianbei, and the Southern Liang Dynasty all have historical and cultural identities that deserve proper representation.

After that, we can consider expanding the Three Kingdoms theme further with factions such as Yuan Shao, Dong Zhuo, or the Yellow Turbans.

The goal isn’t to replace the Three Kingdoms theme, but to build a stronger foundation so that the whole era has more room to grow.

Yeah a separate Ancient China mode would be fun. Not only for the Three Kingdoms:

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I agree there is room for many other periods of Chinese history. However, the Three Kingdoms is a particularly valuable IP and deserves special attention.

Chronicles provides a better framework for capturing the atmosphere of a specific era, allowing more freedom to represent factions, historical events, and unique mechanics.

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Two possible solutions:

  1. Move them to Chronicles and remove them form AOE2’s roster.

or

  1. Wei → Khitans, Khitans → Tanguts, rework Shu → Bai or Tai, and rework Wu → Tibetans or Tai.

Also fire the lawyers who blocked Tibetans and Tanguts so as not to upset China.

This game will die when the creatives have to obey lawyers.

3 Likes

These are absolutely not just “least disruptive change.” Other than reworking Wei to Xianbei, every other change would require major redesigns that make the civ play noticeably differently from its current version. Things like replacing UUs/UTs/Wonders, reworking stats and bonuses, and so on. If you don’t do that, then you’re just using civilizations that deserve to be standalone civs as a cover for the Three Kingdoms, while giving up their chances being added as their own civs. That should be the worst possible approach.

If you want Shu to become Bai properly, it would be impossible for it to keep the same design. It would need shock infantry, the WFG and the chariot would have to go, the multiple-arrow mechanics would have to be removed too, and obviously the Wonder would have to be changed as well. If you want the civ to represent Bai, it simply can’t convincingly act Shu. And if you want it to act Shu well, then it can’t accurately represent Bai.

The same issue applies to every proposed replacement other than Wei → Xianbei, while you cannot only change Wei alone. I’d only like to have Xianbei, Bai, Tibetans, Tanguts their own civs respectively alongside the 3K. This approach would allow us to wait an opportunity to move the Three Kingdoms into a spin-off mode and rework them (such like allowing Wei to shed its Xianbei elements and Shu to ditch that stupid chariot.)

And again, since I don’t think we need a southern Han Chinese anyway, I oppose Southern Liang Dynasty becoming a civ, not mention it’s just another political entity.

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I agree about civ changes in principle (ofc they need fixes for Wonders etc) but what do Tibetans and Wu have in common? They were pastoral plateau people with heavy cavalry, not a maritime power. The Wu tech tree doesn’t seem suited for them, even the current Khitans probably fit Tibetans better.

The key is to make:

The civilization name, gameplay mechanics, and historical identity consistent again.

The point isn’t necessarily what name they should change to, but whether the developers are willing to make changes.

My proposal is simply the solution I personally consider the most reasonable and least disruptive within the current AoE2 framework.

Even if the developers only change the names without major reworks, it would still show a willingness to address the mismatch between civilization identity and design.

Of course, renaming is only a last resort.

The ideal solution would be to give the Three Kingdoms a framework more suitable for them, such as a standalone Three Kingdoms project. However, if that is unrealistic, then at least making the names, mechanics, and historical backgrounds consistent would be a practical compromise.

For example, if Liang were considered as a replacement for Wu, I believe the Lanling Xiao clan (蘭陵蕭氏) has enough historical significance to represent an independent civilization.

The Xiao clan wasn’t merely a local power. They were one of the most important aristocratic families of the Southern Dynasties, establishing Southern Qi (南齊) and Liang (南梁), with Western Liang (西梁) later continuing their imperial legacy.

The Xiao clan’s Southern Dynasties legacy lasted for more than a century. From the founding of Southern Qi in 479 to the fall of Western Liang in 587, their political tradition continued for around 108 years.

Among these states, Liang was the peak of the Lanling Xiao clan’s historical influence. Under Emperor Wu of Liang (梁武帝), the dynasty became a major center of Jiangnan culture, with significant developments in Buddhism, literature, and aristocratic society.

The Liang identity represents more than just another Han Chinese dynasty:

  1. A Jiangnan empire founded by northern aristocrats who migrated south.
  2. The center of the Jiankang (建康) cultural world.
  3. A period of major Buddhist, literary, and aristocratic development.
  4. A combination of Southern naval traditions and elite cavalry forces, such as Chen Qingzhi’s White Robe Army (陳慶之白袍軍).

Its cultural influence also continues to this day. Emperor Wu of Liang’s promotion of Buddhism made Liang an important stage in the development of Chinese Buddhism. The 《Liang Huang Bao Chan》(梁皇寶懺) remains one of the commonly recited texts in modern Chinese Buddhist ceremonies, demonstrating that Liang’s cultural legacy has continued for nearly 1,500 years.

Therefore, Liang isn’t simply another Chinese dynasty. It represents a distinct civilization with lasting political, cultural, and religious influence.

Being based on a family or clan still doesn’t make something a good candidate for a civ. The most prominent and influential family in world history — the Habsburgs — was, as far as I remember, the only family-based candidate that was ever considered as a potential civ during the development of AoC, but it was rejected in the end.

Imagine someone asking for the Samurai clans in Japanese history to become separate civs. It’s essentially the same thing. Using families or clans as the basis for a civ, just like using political entities as the basis, doesn’t really align with how people have traditionally understood and defined AoE2 civs.

If you’re simply trying to highlight the long-term cultural influence that a prominent family had on a certain people, then the civ should be based on that people instead. It’s the people that carries a culture and endures over time. And in this case, the game already has the Chinese. That’s why I’m saying we don’t really need a second Han Chinese civ. Otherwise, there would actually be no reason for the community to be against the 3K either, because you could also argue that the 3K had a cultural impact on China that lasted far longer than the individual regimes themselves existed.

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Well, in AoE 3, the Habsburgs are a minor civilization (Royal House)…in mods like Napoleonic Era and Wars of Liberty they are a full-fledged civilization…

Yeah, they should leave that for AoE 4…it feels weird in AoE 2…