The "Hussite wagon doesn't fire main projectile" problem also affects Chu Ko Nus

:arrow_forward: GAME INFORMATION

  • GAME BUILD #: Current
  • GAME PLATFORM: All
  • OPERATING SYSTEM: All

:arrow_forward: ISSUE EXPERIENCED

Primary/secondary projectile problem: if a unit fires multiple projectiles and the attacking stops before all projectiles are fired, the attack cooldown is incurred but the next attack will continue with the secondary projects that weren’t fired in the previous attack. This is why Hussite Wagons were changed to fire secondary projectiles simultaneously with the main projectile. Their delay was pretty long, and the secondary projectiles look different from main, so the problem was obvious. However, it also affects Chu Ko Nu (source: Spirit of the Law). It can happen because a new command is given before all arrows are fired, for which we can blame the user, but it can also happen if the target dies before all arrows are fired. This will usually only happen for a target at close range, because all arrows can be launched at a distant target before the first one arrives (I think).

Practical result: Chu Ko Nu become particularly bad in large groups at fighting low-health enemies that get in close, like Karambit Warriors, because a large number of Chu Ko Nu will fire at the same Karambit Warrior, kill it with the first one or two flights of arrows, and then wait 3 sec before firing secondary arrows at a different target. This may also quickly die if the Chu Ko Nu are out of sync, so a single Chu Ko Nu might only fire 5 arrows after 7 seconds, when he should have fired 15.

:arrow_forward: FREQUENCY OF ISSUE

  • 100% of the time (ALWAYS)

:arrow_forward: REPRODUCTION STEPS

Here’s the steps to reproduce the issue:

(Conjectured)

  1. Get a group of 60 fully-upgraded Cho Ku No and some Feudal-age+ enemy palisade walls to fire at
  2. Move all of the Cho Ku Nu close to an enemy palisade wall
  3. Shoot a palisade wall. It should die instantly to 60 arrows each doing (8+6-5)=9 damage (540 damage on first flight).
  4. As soon the Chu Ko Nu stop firing, click on another wall. The Chu Ko Nu should wait 3 sec, and then fire at the wall. It should not die, because there should be 3~4 flights of secondary arrows, each doing 1 damage (60 per flight, up to 240 damage, wall has 10 HP left).

:arrow_forward: EXPECTED RESULT

:point_down: What was SUPPOSED to happen if the bug you encountered were not present?

EITHER: After 3 sec when the Chu Ko Nu fire, the second wall segment dies immediately, because the Chu Ko Nu have had time to reload, OR with changed mechanics: the Chu Ko Nu fire their remaining secondary arrows instantly, not killing the wall (since still up to 240 damage) but also not waiting 3 sec for that volley. Unless the reload period has already occurred (such as because the Chu Ko Nu spent 5 seconds walking or waiting for a target), in which case the volley should start with main arrow.

The changed mechanics would be cooler since we would see more arrows flying through the air, but only if Chu Ko Nu can switch to a new target quickly: the full cooldown would still occur after the last secondary arrow, so a delay before continuing to shoot rises linearly in opportunity cost until cooldown has completed, at which point instead of secondary arrows the volley would begin with a primary arrow.

Basically, it would be great if units like Chu Ko Nu worked more like a Castle or Town Center, which you can retarget in the middle of a volley and it will just continue the volley at the new target instead of stopping like a Chu Ko Nu would. Not actually sure if a Castle or TC firing many arrows will immediately switch to a new target if the first one dies during the volley; I think it will, but it usually will occur only for nearby targets since for distant ones many arrows will be in flight by the time the first arrives.

This bug is somewhat related to the “Bombard Cannons don’t fire” bug (which may be a ‘feature’ that you decide not to change), because you can’t do the castle-like behavior without fixing that bug. It would be nice if you could quickly switch target with Chu Ko Nu, and the only penalty would be the short delay (the “firing delay” period?) between starting the firing animation and the arrow being released; all Chu Ko Nu who aren’t reloading would either fire a primary or secondary arrow at the new target. Not sure of the exact details, but ideally, rapidly switching targets would slightly decrease the rate of arrows being fired compared to focusing on a single, high-HP target like a building, but it would never lead to a pattern of fire main arrow; wait 3 sec; fire single secondary arrow at new target; wait 3 sec because another attack command has been given; fire secondary arrow #2; wait another 3 sec; fire secondary arrow #3; wait 3 sec; fire secondary arrow #4; wait 3 sec, and finally, fire main arrow and restart the whole cycle again.

:arrow_forward: IMAGE

This video only shows the interruption of attacks. Observe Chu Ko Nu, especially in the back, often firing only one arrow:

It doesn’t show that these are weak attacks, because individual targets and damage received are too hard to track and discriminate between in this video.

Video 2, after a patch with -5 food cost for Karambits that bring them to +32 score vs Chu Ko Nu; including this to emphasize the weakness of Chu Ko Nu due to this bug by showing them losing:

However, you CAN see a modified Ballista elephant affected by this bug here:

Samurai at the left corner: dies to the first bolt. Elephant stops after 2x secondary. The next volley is short and also starts with a weak secondary bolt.

:arrow_forward: GAME FILES (SAVE / RECORDING)

I’m sorry but I don’t even have AoE2 DE. I have HD, but it’s difficult to run on my old computer with Steam bugs that use a lot of CPU, since my computer’s fan is broken.

1 Like

After more testing, this bug is a little inconsistent, maybe only happening 85% of the time. Sometimes, when testing with a non-elite Chu Ko Nu, it seemed switching targets during a volley would lead to the volley continuing against the new target, maybe even with extra arrows: it seemed like I could get two arrows against the first target and then two arrows against the second target, even though regular Chu Ko Nu should only fire three in total. It’s also possible that the first two arrows were secondary arrows, followed by another two secondary arrows at the second target; it was too hard to replicate and this was testing a scenario, so no recorded game to examine to check damage of the first arrow.

So it might depend, sometimes or always, on exactly when the target switch is made: it might only cause a full ‘reset’ at certain (i.e. most, but not all) points in the firing animation.

In this sense, buildings might also be affected, but maybe have a different range of animation times that lead to the bug. During testing of a castle with 20 extra arrows against monks without sanctity, the number of volleys seemed inconsistent, and it seemed that volleys could sometimes (but usually not) be interrupted when switching targets, or maybe when a target died; or maybe if a target died, and then automatic switching began (normally a short delay) but a manual command was given during that period. For whatever reason, some volleys were short, even very short like just a few arrows.

But it’s really hard to tell if a castle’s volley begins with a primary or secondary arrow. The only real way for a user to tell would be either to redirect all volleys at a high-HP target and let all arrows fire, which through arrow count could suggest whether first arrow was primary; or direct all volleys at stone wall segments, since first arrow doesn’t get bonus damage, and carefully look at each volley frame-by-frame to see the damage of each arrow. I can’t pause the game fast enough to do this.

So, it’s possible that Castle volleys always start with a primary arrow (i.e. are not affected by this bug), and short volleys are only from the ‘bombard cannon doesn’t fire’ bug being triggered during automatic (finding of new targets, censored) by the castle.

I think it would be nice if castles found a new target faster after the first dies, because at least in HD the pause is quite noticeable; having 4x the total arrows only led to about a 16% increase in real dps (with no user input) because of all the wasted arrows and pausing.