The ideal Age of Empires game

Hi conquerors and dreamers. I’m posting here to share ideas about what the perfect Age of Empires game would look like for me, and I invite you guys to speak your minds. For me, the dreamed AoE game would use AoE 2 as the foundation (this is why I’m posting this under AoE2). The game’s success and resilience to stand against more modern games with better graphics are undeniable. I believe that its success relies on its balance between simplicity in its mechanics, giving players the freedom to try new things and be creative while being very deep, like the case of science.

However, there is a lot of room for improvement if Microsoft would be up to launching a new AoE game ever or moving AoE2 to the next level. So let’s just daydream. I’m presenting my thoughts below.

1)Stronger link between army (land troops) and navy (water):

I strongly believe the weakest factor in AoE is the dichotomy between land and water warfare. Water is a flat-terrain miniature of the interesting rock-paper-scissors model we have on land. No hills, all the same ships, no amazing multitasking villagers. In that much more simplistic world, whoever takes the upper hand via civ water bonuses and resource-gathering through memorized build order will always be victorious. Water mostly encourages all-in strategies without caring much about the balance between land and sea.

To connect the two worlds, I believe that all ships should be able to transport land troops. Moreover, ships could benefit differently depending on the units they carry. For example, infantry could give mobility, archers could increase the fire rate or accuracy, and villagers could slow down the ships. Transport ships could be used to transport cavalry and siege (with a tanker/larger design). I suggest the price for all the ships should be largely increased (as they would have transporting capabilities and can benefit from having a crew, or maybe ships shouldn’t count as pop and be only useful when adding units, including villagers for fishing boats.

I think this tighter connection between land and water would add more dynamic gameplay to both mixed maps and water maps like islands. Players would need to keep a balance between army and navy to succeed, as opposed to just snowballing one or two units. Investing in the navy would provide high reward for high cost and risk (sinking ships full of units for example). But it can also give the player a chance to catch up if they are behind in the navy (by upgrading ships with existing units or use ships to ride by land as counterplay).

I don’t believe that just adding more variety of ships like in the upcoming Greece DLC is going to solve the problem per se. Why would we want to learn more new units in the still flat, disconnected world? Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy they are adding variety, just saying that variety by itself won’t encourage more people to play with water.

  1. 3D graphics and dynamic Line of Sight:

We all love the charming 2D graphics of AoE. However, the 2D models have their limitations. Walls distortions hiding big holes; missing sense of perspective in otherwise beautifully designed maps with hills, creeks, and rivers where all the units look the same regardless if they are at the top or at the bottom; to mention a few limitations of the 2D graphics. To exploit the full potential of the game, 3D graphics like the ones of AoM retold or AoE 3 are required.

Adding the third dimension won’t only enhance the aesthetics of the game. This could be huge for strategizing and interacting with the terrain. It would enable a dynamic Line of Sight, where the LOS is obstructed by large objects. For example, units shouldn’t be able to see what is around a hill. I remember back in 2005, when AoE 3 was showing off its astonishing graphics; one picture had two armies, one on top of a cliff and the other one at the bottom. I was wondering if the troops could see each other. A dynamic LoS would be massive for planning ambushes using the terrain (forests, hills, cliffs) adding more possibilities for overcoming adversity as opposed to just pushing it with micro or brute force. After all, isn’t this a strategy game?

  1. Immersive reports during matches:

I enjoy playing a campaign and getting notifications from my generals and scouts. That Barbarossa campaign, 10 minutes for the Saracen attack, we must hurry! Nothing of that happens when we play against each other. Of course, this is not for everyone; for experts, this would be a distraction, but for the rest of the mortals, who wouldn’t like that our scouts tell us if the enemy just built a castle, or a massive army is approaching us? Another use case for the notifications is for new players, where, upon a castle being detected, a notification could tell them what the opponent castle unit is good for and weak against. So they can jump in without having to memorize every UU before a match online.

I also believe players should rely on active exploration and reports, rather than looking at the score bar which I believe we shouldn’t be able to see at all during the game. For instance, in chess, players cannot see the gauge bar to tell them who is doing better.

I believe this could attract new players as well because you feel more like part of a team with your own army. Again, not for everyone, but these notifications could be voiced (no AI please) with avatar and text, just text, or just mute them all! I don’t believe it would hurt having them.

  1. More regional units and graphic options:

To the point, I would rather pay for a DLC that gives me more regional units according to the civs I’m picking than a DLC that gives me a whole new civ. In the case of AoE 2, I believe the game has plenty of content already and should improve what it already has (prioritizing bugs and pathfinding of course).

Regional units also mean adding more immersion. Black and blond villagers, Asian outfits for Asian villagers, monk looks, not all European men-at-arms! I am aware of the problems that more regional units could bring. We all want to easily identify what a MaA, archer or villager is. I wouldn’t ask for too different looks. Definitely, it would be a bad idea to have different unit designs for every civ, but at least something more representative for their regions (African, Mese, Indians, Asian). Still, I believe it would be much easier to learn to identify the units rather than learning new unit statistics every couple of months.

Also, some replacements can be made for the units themselves. For example, I loved what they did with the Indian civs replacing rams for siege elephants. This could be done for meso-civs using animals to ram. I would leave space for creativity regardless of historical accuracy. My eyes would be more pleased to see a giant slingshot pulled by a robust bovine led by people as opposed to a sophisticated European trebuchet or mangonel. Again, these units don’t even need to have existed; they just need to fit in!

… A couple of other graphical options… I will never get tired of asking to bring the AoC skeletons back! And also, an option to have medium trees would be nice, because the default ones are large enough to affect visibility, and the small ones are practical but look too unreal. Finally, adding some animations like the AoE 4 workers building would be great! Or modifying the animations when technologies are applied, like murder holes throwing down stones (and some civs could have boiled oil too).

I believe most of the changes in this point are perfectly feasible for the current game. These things cannot be just left for modders because there are always bugs here and there, and they won’t always be there to maintain.

–Final thoughts:

AoE is not a fighting game, where adding new fighting characters would maintain or grow the player base. Simple but clever game mechanics that stimulate creative playing and historic immersion is what makes AoE great.

I’m conscious I’m asking for too much for the current AoE, but who knows, after all, dreaming is free (still).

I would love to hear from you what from AoE 3, 4 and AoM, would you pick for a dreamed AoE game (I read that oysters from AoE3 are now in the new DLC for AoE2)… who knows if the next AoE game becomes AoE 1 retold?! (Mortal Kombat came back from 11 to 1 recently).

–Disclosure:

I’m just a mediocre player (14++ - 15++ rating) that hasn’t touched the game in the last 20 months or so, but still love it. I have only played AoE 1 (old one) and 2 (kings, conquerors, and DE). Writing this post purely out of passion.

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Sometimes I imagine AOE5 that is 1st person RTS. I become a leader of the country in the game, instruct vil or army production, tech reserches, and the army movement. I can move like minecraft (can fly) and get sight limit (so some scouts give me a info regularly).

btw that is a great mod. We can get some idea from that.

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Use infantry for boarding other ships (which was the main historical method used until artillery broadsides became powerful enough), while archers directly fire with their own weapon. Cavalry could act as infantry as dismounted on board (not cost efficient but mainly of a high quality anyway for heavy cav). It would turn ships into mainly mobile platforms, some being indeed armed by heavier weapons or having the ability of ramming. The surface area of the ship would dictate how many men it can carry, be it melee or ranged.

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Age of Empires 4 is the next level Microsoft has launched for AoE2.

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Ideal Age of Empires game? Great topic for pure speculation! Of course, this can be stuff that is never going to be implemented so… let’s see…

I would suggest, for the most part, just simplifications:

(1) Drastically reduce the number of available civs. Remaining are all 13 civs from original AoK, plus Spanish, Koreans, Italians, Berbers, Tatars, Magyars, Slavs.
(2) Remove camels as a generic unit
(3) Civ-specific changes:
Saracens: Give Camel rider as UU to Saracens (replacing Mameluke), and buffing its stats appropriately since it’s locked behind castles now.
Turks: Receive Pikemen and/or bonus for Janissary against cavalry to cover for missing camel
Italians: Lose Condottiero, get current Portuguese team bonus instead.
Mongols, Tatars: Lose Steppe Lancer
Berbers: Remove Genitour
Persians: Remove Savar, give back Paladin, perhaps making Paladin upgrade cost cheaper. Remove Caravanserai
Magyars: Give UU the +1 range steppe lancer ability
Tatars: Remove flaming camel
Byzantines: Give back Cannon Galleon. Adjust dromon to be a unique ship from castle age (mangonel/onager on sea) that also has an elite upgrade, but less effective against buildings and not outreaching castles.
Vikings: Receive fire galley
Koreans: Receive demo raft

The goal of these changes are that every available civ in the game has access to the same buildings and at least the first unit of each unit line. All odd civ-specific game mechanics are gone as well. I may have overlooked some detail, but the general idea should be clear. Aside from one UU per civ, unique ships are still in, though, and I would even consider creating one or two more (re-using the caravel idea, for example).

Regarding the civs: I think 20 is more than enough to explore different strength/weaknesses/playstyles. I could even agree to remove either Tatars or Magyars, both overlap quite a lot. Maybe instead one additional archer civ could be good (Ethiopians?!).

Obviously, a few further minor stats adjustment may be needed to balance this properly. And in one or two cases, civ boni that become vacant could be distributed to an existing civs to make up for a now-existing weakness. But this should all be doable with relative ease.

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That would be great @DukeOfLorraine but the ships would have to be massive to allow such a boarding mechanic. Or you have another idea?

I believe that was the idea because of the epochs overlaps, but somehow AoE II is still the king. I don’t believe that’s going to change over time. I don’t know exactly why. One day I will need to give AoE IV a go I guess

As I said, dreaming is free @icicle83 . I don’t think that simplifying is a bad idea. It is interesting though that it is opposite to the trend in development. I believe adding more variety is perceived as a better replayability value. Perhaps it is just an illusion. Chess has only two kingdoms that are pretty much the same, and it’s been played with the same pieces and rules for centuries. Personally, I like the variety in the civs but I also feel it is getting overwhelming.

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That would be a super immersive game, and I believe we have all dreamed about something like that @fleuret_jp . Have you ever watch Ender’s game? Good movie and I think it is a similar concept. I don’t think we are too far from that. There were games in the 90s like X-wing and Tie fighter where you flight your ship and command your mates (through commands on the keyboard, which was super hrd to memorise). Now fans have upgraded those games to VR experience and added voice commanding to replace the complicated keyboard commands. I will try it out soon but looks amazing (if you like Star Wars). I believe the idea would be replicable to a game where you ride your horse and swing your sword, while commanding your troops.

I would say the trend in development of adding more variety is not motivated by better replayability but rather resellability (is this even a word?!). Game development nowadays is not meant to yield good games, only good sales.

Exactly. Perfect analogy. Granted, this perspective only applies to multiplayer AoE2, but that’s the only part of the game I am interested in anyway.

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They would see an increase in size but if they can hold around 10 infantrymen (cav being dismounted and appearing as such) they wouldn’t be that massive.

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My ideal mode in AOE 2 would be a Sim City mode where it’s just building and jazz music with some natural disaster while my villagers are complaining.

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Isnt there a medieval sims game?

Going through the topics you said:

  1. Stronger link between army (land troops) and navy (water): Would be new to the franchise, don’t know of an “Age of” game that has this naval system. I would love to see this implemented.
  2. 3D graphics and dynamic Line of Sight: AoE4 has that.
  3. Immersive reports during matches: don’t know if it is worth the investment, but sounds cool and can be easily a toggleable feature.
  4. More regional units and graphic options: AoE4 has that.

I think overall AoE4 tries to be more immersive than AoE2, and it has half of the points you brought, but it tries to be different while not being bold enough to be as unique as having a naval system like you suggested, for example.

It tries to evolve AoE2, but it is not and cannot be AoE2, it’s an awkward position.

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There is but not with AOE 2 assets. I really enjoy this style.

I really want to develop an RTS with better naval. But really lack the manpower to do so. In fact wants to make an RTS which’ll let you explore entire world instead of locked into 120x120 map. I have core idea but developing prototype right now

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This game already exist, he is called Ancient Wars: Sparta
He feature a very good naval combat system. There is only 3 boat type : barge (can only transport unit, 20 slot and very slow unit) light ship (fast ship) and heavy ship (fast ship). The light ship a only a ram and 5 infantry slot and the heavy ship have a ram, 10 infantry slot and one or two catapult (depend of the civilization).

The ship cannot fight alone (except for ramming), if you want to fight another ship you must embark infantry unit who fight with their own weapon and shoot at another infantry unit on enemy ship. You can also board and capture enemy ship but for this you must primary embark infantry unit on your ship.

Also in this game all vehicle or animal you produce do nothing if there is no infantry to manage them. You can produce horse (1 slot) armored horse (1 slot), chariot (2 or 3 slot), camel (2 slot), elephant (4 slot), siege tower, catapult, balista but like the ship they can do nothing if you don’t produce infantry to ride them or manage them.

You can capture this vehicle or animal if you kill the rider or the crew.

There is only 3 infantry unit with is specialization light (good at ranged weapon), medium (good at throwing weapon) and heavy (good at melee weapon). You don’t upgrade the unit but instead research armor and weapon. When you build an unit you must choose the armor and the weapon (you can choose a secondary weapon and the unit can switch between melee and ranged mode), the more advanced weapon and armor equipped, the more time that take to train an unit. You can also loot the enemy weapon and train your unit with them (you’re a greek, kill an indian chakram warrior, loot his weapon and train your own greek chakram warrior).

Conclusion : the naval combat of this game is very fun : embark infantry, ramming, boarding, capture ship, shoot with ranged weapon of the infantry at enemy crew or shoot with embedded catapult at the other ship.

But for the land combat, there is too many micromanaging (choose your type of infantry, then his armor, then his weapon and eventually choose is secondary weapon), the training time take too much time (the more equipped, the more time). And you cannot produce directly mounted unit or siege weapon, you must produce infantry and vehicle/siege weapon independently, this also take too much time. In the game Company of heroes you can capture antitank gun, mortar and machine-gun but at least you can directly produce your own very rapidly and with their own crew.

A squad unit system like Company of heroe or Ancestors legacy. Ancestor legacy is a good game with very good graphic, extraordinary music, good campaign, very good cutscene, good combat but have too many fault : no random map, only 10 squadron (yes you control only 10 units), few different unit (5 by civilization (1/2 cavalry and 3/4 infantry/ranged unit) + two siege unit (balista and catapult) at least the aztecs and mayas in AoE2 have 6 units + 4 siege units. Absolutely no naval combat. For buying unit you must capture resource spot and the resource rate production is too slow. Your building are predetermine slot on the map. Your only defensive building are three wood tower (and you don’t choose their emplacement), yes your are int he middle age, the time of castles and you can only build 3 miserable little wood tower and absolutely no wall.

So maybe an AoE5 set in antiquity with the gameplay of AoE4 (AoE4 is a good remaster of AoE 2 : traditional Age of gameplay + unit on the wall + asymmetrical civ like AoE3) plus the naval system of Sparta ancient war (with some stuff like greek fire, Corvus boarding device, demolition ship) and maybe the possibility to capture mount and siege weapon if you kill their crew. Plus a squad unit system can be good like Ancestors legacy (but if you can control more than only 10 squad and with more than five different unit, in AoE4 there is 7 generic unit + the unique units + many siege unit + many naval unit).

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Hey Atsavin. That sounds more like an ideal Sims game for you rather than an RTS like AoE though where it is all about conquer.

That naval system from Sparta looks great. I’m also glad to hear AoE IV is good. Perhaps the lower numbers reflect people just not leaving their comfort zone with AoE2, but that may change in the future. I will definitely give AoE IV a go. By the way, Mortal Kombat came back all the way from MK 11 to MK 1, resetting the timeline. So, an AoE V with content of AoE I, why not?! Although it is more unlikely to happen now AoE II is already getting content from I. Thanks for sharing.

That sounds like a very ambitious project. Good luck man. I don’t mind the small flat Earth we got in AoE, as far as troops doesnt fall at the edges xD