After posting this suggestion on Reddit, here is the second version, improved with the help of insightful redditors.
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Ah, I like your Wonder Age-up work around!
I saw the original on reddit so was interested in how you would tackle it fitting in with the AD age-up system - in fact I was going to suggest some kind of esteemed/wonderous/prestigious version of an existing building or even somekind of banner site type thing, but this was running on not a lot of deep knowledge of the Kazakhs.
Your suggestion seems many times better!
ps - you may want to make your image bigger as you need to click on it to read it
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Very nice ideas. I donāt know much about Kazakhs, but itās always good know something new.
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I love the Kurultai system. Iād definitely use it if (when?) I make a Kazakh civ mod. Most of the civās design canāt really be modded, but as something meant for the developers to decide, itās a really well thought out and creative civ. Although I fear they may be lacking in firepower, I donāt see much in the way of siege.
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Very cool ideas. I hope some day weāll have a Central Asia DLC.
I would like to see how you would make an Uzbek civ.
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There is a typo in the tech āqylqobyzā.
Interesting but 2 shipments for 400 exports in age 3 is too valuable, as well as +2 flying crow for 800
And then we have with 1k export +25 population but with the pop system you devised, it basically means you want the malus.
The -15% on units hp/attack is a bit too much, especially because if you are overpoped, it means you canāt train any more units.
Also, is the calculation weird ? The max pop is always 200, doesnāt change in the small equation.
Vills costing more for no gain is also a huge problem early, it means your age up are delayed and any rush civs busts you.
You should make the max pop for example 100 and then plan its way to 200 with the horse system, instead of horse giving 3 pop.
You have to think of what kind of strategy this civ will predilige, rush? boom? turtle? As for now, it canāt rush. The way the barracks works is just detrimental because you have to spend a huge ton of time just building the barracks+ houses nearby to increase the batch (more res costing, more space occupying, in case enemy pushes you, you are losing both the barrack AND the houses)
The Mosque tech that gives you back 100% res is difficult to balance because if you see someone sieging you, you can just wait till its 10% hp and delete itā¦ Enemy will get the xp but you will get all the res back.
The cheap heavy infantry is not cheap. When putting wood cost to something, think of it as almost 30% more valuable than gold.
Very impressive civ suggestion, even if it will be extremely pop intensive. A few remarks on my end, speaking as a top 400 in team games.
- Sardarbeks building castles when over-popped. I donāt think this is a good idea, and can easily lead to jank if you start building a castle with him, then youāre under pop again. Maybe a different ability is in order?
- Kuime big button to discover all herdables. This can get really scary when it comes to scouting, because you will immediately know the enemy base if they got a herdable. I would suggest revealing only neutral herdables instead.
- Qoymasi-Yurt synergy is interesting, but I would suggest making Yurts cost food and wood only. Itās more straight-forward to macro in the early game. Additionally reducing costs, because setting up a forward base would be a lot more expensive in both resources and idle time. Unless the units make up for it(which it doesnāt look like it), rushing as Kazakhs will end up prohibitively expensive.
- Dragoons in age 2 has always been extremely risky. Whoever codes this needs to be very careful.
- A card or tech that allows training horses could be useful late game, otherwise Kazakhs wonāt be able to utilise them much.
- I donāt know if 90 food 30 wood can be considered cheap
- Bazaars being built for free on neutral ground is a very risky proposal. Assuming the Kazakh player is fighting a turtle player, this allows for unrivaled map domination. Even without that, it opens up the player for a very scary map control playstyle.
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Thanks for pointing that out. The card Qylqobyz was meant to give the Baqsi a ranged attack.
Vills cost a bit more food for their ability to turn into mounted villagers which seems very strong early on. Your age up might not be delayed that much especially because of the food you can easily get from horses, goats and from herds that can be easily moved around by the hero and mounted villagers.
I think this civ can easily rush. The barracks system is actually super easy to play with, because buildings are built almost instantly and you can configure the number of yurts around it to suit your needs. In case the enemy pushes, you can just destroy and rebuild for almost free.
Getting the resources back is the strength of the civ. While you donāt get much passive trickles such as banks, torps, mountain monasteries, and the civ is really micro intensive, so it is welcomed to have this strength.
And yes, yurts are meant to cost 50wood and 50food, it was a typo.
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- Didnāt think about this. Could easily be thought around.
- Well thought.
- Yurts were intended to cost food and wood, it was a typo. Also keep in mind that Kazakh buildings are built almost instantly.
- Could definitely be a Kuime age4 tech.
- In my mind, the Kazakhs would easily get food, thatās why I got high food costs for most units. But I may be wrong.
- Map control is also a strength of the civ. They are not a boomy civ they donāt have strong siege, they donāt have an insane eco or whatever, but they have powerful tools and players must use them to do whatever they can to win. They will be all over the map, constantly building and rebuilding yurts and Qoymasi, relocating herds to their advantage, having bazaars at unexpected places surrounded by random infantryā¦
They will make you truly fear the fog of war.
You want to attack them? Where are they? Where is their base? Where are their horses? They are not there anymore.
They will just make you go crazy.
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I think you need a bigger picture or a split it up into multiples. Itās a bit hard to read as is.
The population system doesnāt really seem workable to me. Having to constantly tiptoe around the population cap seems really tedious and Iām not quite sure what real life aspect itās trying to emulate.
Most of the unique economic units could be simplified down to just one unit. Roll the āherdingā function of Qusbegi into Mounted Villagers and have them trained directly instead of having Horses as an intermediate unit. So youād end up with a unit like this:
Mounted Villager
Gather Rate - x2 of Villager; Can gather from all resources (shows saddle bags when mining/chopping, pulls plow when farming, etc)
Train Time - 40 sec
Cost - 220 food
Population - 2
Speed - 6
Build Limit - 50
Abilities - Can pick up and transport carcasses (at 50% movement speed); maybe have a Kokpar tech or card to speed them up
As for the hero, Iād much prefer if they move away from the mystical monk design and just give them a Khan.
The Kurultai Age Up system looks promising. It seems like an interesting way to do āwondersā without doing wonders.
The Qoymasi seems really odd. If I understand correctly, itās completely useless without a Yurt? Seems overly convoluted when more standard production buildings would do. And did you remove Steppe Riders from their roster?
Sarbaz are basically a borrowed Persian unit so youād have to account for how they work for a Persian civ. Since the Persian musket unit would almost certainly be Tofangchi Iād expect Sarbaz to be a melee infantry unit.
You could always go with more generic units based on a weapon. For example there is no Axeman unit yet. Another option could be a Recurve Bowman like in my Uzbek concept.
The civ is pretty much totally lacking in siege. You could at least throw in something like Hand Mortars into the Castle to cover that role.
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I donāt know, I love the Qusbegi so much, it would be sad to lose it. It is not very mystical too, itās just a skilled eagle hunter. At the same time, having villagers can mount horses seem so cool. But I agree that the civ currently has a bit too much special economic units.
The personality is the Khan, so how could it be the hero? Iām really convinced it canāt. Also, it would be so boring to have once again a military commander as a hero. The primary function of heroes in the game is to hunt treasures and explore the map. It is absolutely not what a Khan would do.
Thatās a good idea. Reading about different military equipment gives plenty of ideas.
Kazakh bow set
Axes and maces
So the Sarbaz could be a generic melee infantry armed with an axe.
Iām not sure if I should include Steppe Riders or not. Maybe Steppe Riders should replace Batyrs and Batyrs could be either be a special cavalry unit gained from the HM, from specific techs, or be the Steppe Rider ultimate upgrade.
If we include everything, the base military roster would be:
Infantry:
- āGeneric Melee Infantryā (axeman)
- Sarbaz (heavy infantry)
- Myltyq Gunner (skirmisher)
Cavalry
- Steppe Rider
- Cavalry Archer (dragoon)
- Batyr (lancer)
Special Castle Units
- Sardarbek (support/siege)
Iāll think about reworking the Qoymasi system and possibly add a cavalry building
The mounted vills is not a gain though beucase you canāt gather any resource other than hunts, and even that by sacrifying 3 pop/or the food/and the +10 cost for all vills. You are paying a surplus for a āchanceā for the vill to become a mounted vill because that also depends on horses availibilityā¦ Late game, waht do you do? Kill those vills?
It is also about cost and space. Your infrastructures are more costly, and the element of surprise is gone.
I didnāt see the hunts gathering rate for the mountated vill, but even with +30% boost, you would have a delayed age up compared to any other civs.
The fast build + get back res is a dangerous combnation. For example, the TC. if you are getting it sieged, you tank till 10% hp and get backs its res and rebuild somwhere else.
Mounted Villagers can be used to attack or defend. They have a correct flat damage, are fast, and ranged. Moreover, they can still gather food, and that in a much safer way than normal villagers since they are mounted.
Maybe the TC could have a special rule. But I really think the base mechanic of being able to destroy your own building+getting resource back+almost instant build time could work well.
Btw, I updated the whole thing, now including the full military roster, more cards, and modified many things. Bigger picture! (too bad we canāt edit the original post).
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Well, there should be one person leading the tribe of several khans, and that person will be the AI āāpersonality. For example, Genghis Khan will be an AI personality, and a khan under him will be the hero unit.
This is even less likely for monks to do.
Idea, instead of making the skirms unable to move while they reload, why not just make them move extremely slow, sth like 1 ms or 1.5.
As compensation however, the Armor while reloading should be reduced.
Hmm, as much as I dislike that the ADs all have Monks/religious folks as their hero units, historically you can link that role with exploring (in a missionary-type/emissary context) somewhat. Hunting treasures, not so much.
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There are multiple Khanās so thatās not really an issue. And even if it was, thereās already civs like Malta that have a Grand Master as both the personality an hero.
But the Asian religions arenāt so mission focused, and even if they were, Brahmin and Shaolin Masters would not have been the ones going out to do it.
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Yeah, I guessed so. Just trying to work out way to shoehorn the whole Monk thing in, however itās such a terrible system. Iād rather just give them a military figure, overseer or emissary in place of Monks. Religious folks should just hold the same position as Euros - just a healer. Whilst almost all Euros are fine with Explorers (with the odd but fitting one of Malta), I wish AD civ heroes were just tailored to what each of their civs may have used to explore/establish trade posts/hunt treasures, rather than go the stupid Orientalist route.
Personally Iād just give them a Tribal Leader (Iāll have to add the proper term later - I did have glossary of terms somewhere).
As the Kazakh Khanate was a confederacy of tribes, it makes sense that your exploring unit would a more local leader than a mighty Khan. Narratively, your Khan is wishing to extend his territory and it falls to a Leader of one of the tribes within the Khanate to control the land near him. With that in mind HC shipments could also add more Tribal Leaders (other local Kazakh Khanate tribes) or even one that help in the late game of shifting the exploring aspect to combat support.