The name Zhu Xi still needs to be changed

Thank you to the developers for paying attention to the players’ demands. Although this is still not a good name (not even as good as the Jade Empire, at least the former is the faction name,the new name sounds like the title of a story or the preface to a historical campaign, rather than the name that a faction should have), Compared to the other three variant civilizations, Zhu Xi sounds like a DLC theme name.

Any abstract nouns and adjectives are not suitable. My suggestion is to directly name them with specific dynasties, military titles that have existed in history, or even academic factions. There were quite a few such materials during the Song and Ming dynasties.
I don’t think it’s contradictory, macro Song/Ming dynasties. The other is the micro Song/Ming Dynasty.
Just like there are both Mongolia and Yuan dynasties in the game.
In the current version of the game, “CHINESE” is more like a multi-ethnic and comprehensive China, with both Han and grassland ethnic characteristics. “Mongolia” highlights grassland style, while the new variant civilization highlights more pure Han Confucian characteristics.

Then the well-known “Yue Fei’s Army” or Northern Expeditionary Army in China is actually a better choice.

Yue Fei’s army has a high reputation in Chinese history, and there are countless folk stories related to it. Almost no Chinese person does not know him, and Yue Fei himself is also one of the most typical military generals in Chinese culture, even being regarded as the “Martial Saint” named after Guan Yu.

By the way, Yue Fei’s army was one of the few powerful cavalry units in the Southern Song Dynasty, equipped with heavy armored infantry and crossbows as the main force, which were typical characteristics of the Southern Song army. In addition, there was a little-known feature, which was that the Song Dynasty court allowed the army to engage in business on its own, and Yue Fei’s army was one of the best performing businesses among them.

Zhu Xi was an official and philosopher of the Southern Song Dynasty. His reputation in China is very poor. Some criticize him for attempting to suppress human nature with hypocritical moral standards, while others criticize him and Confucianism for their prejudice and oppression of women. In addition, as a civil servant, Zhu Xi’s military connection with the Song Empire is clearly limited.

Of course, this does not necessarily mean that the variant Chinese refers to the Song Dynasty, as Zhu Xi’s ideas only began to flourish during the Yuan and Ming dynasties.

The Yuan Dynasty itself had a certain overlap with Mongolia, so it lacked characteristics to be applied.

The most famous and influential general of the Ming Dynasty was Qi Jiguang. His military tactics against Japanese pirates in the south and against Mongolia in the north were very successful. Most of the Great Wall we see now was built under Qi Jiguang’s leadership, and Qi Jiguang is even considered the “Morris of the East”. Indeed, the two were very similar in their military and tactical ideas. Qi Jiguang’s series of military works also had a profound impact on the military of Korea at that time and later the Qing Dynasty.

The Song and Ming dynasties respectively represented the two most typical military images of the Chinese military during the Middle Ages.

Typical Song Dynasty army (corresponding to the Chain Armor era in Europe during the same period):

Typical Ming Dynasty army (corresponding to the plate armor era in Europe during the same period):

Ming Dynasty and Japan Fighting in Korea


Good luck changing their minds. They have already shown their hand, they are clearly unwilling to make a real change here. In their eyes, this new direction of making Age of Warcraft is a good one.

Jesus christ what a mess.


We still don’t have the full details of how Zhu Xi will play in terms of strategies, so we have to wait for that before we call it bad.

When it comes to Jeanne it now makes more sense regarding how that variant civ will be, regardless if u like or not the name it make sense now.


Well at least its “more historically accurate” wasn’t that the entire point?


No, it doesn’t make any more sense.

What the hell do they think that they are doing, adding a person as a civilization? This idea was absolute bonkers from the root of it. You’re saying it makes sense as if it solves anything; it does not.

You act as if it is fine if they had added Ronald McDonald just because the civilization features the clown throwing hamburgers at people. The fundamental issue here is that this is not a game about individuals. It is a game about empires, and the developers are completely detached from understanding what the community expects from this franchise.


I mostly disagree with OP, I think they are equally bad for different reasons.

Empire of Jade was historically inconsistent. Zhu Xi’s Legacy is thematically inconsistent. Both are equally important. And I would like to see the name adjusted to achieve consistency in both.

This can be done by simply calling it Zhu Xi’s Southern Song.

Zhu Xi’s Legacy is slightly better because Empire of Jade was pretty orientalist. But in regards to the two main criticisms had, they are equal.


Or Just Southern Song


Southern Song would be fine with me.


My question is that if each variant features a specific hero character, why not name all of them after that specific character. What’s with all of the separation between naming conventions?


I thought that the main issue was that some of these variant names was not “authentic” to historical names, well they did listen to us and the new names while you can dislike them or not they are now in fact more historical authentic.

Jeanne is literally a historical character that played a huge part in the hundred year wars, and now we have a variant civ that focuses on her 100%. It does make sense, you don’t like the naming of this civ that’s another issue for you but it does make sense for what this civ is and how it plays so strongly with her.

The Chinese variant civ that was previously called The Jade Empire is now called Zhu Xi Legacy which is also historical accurate of a person that lived in the Song Dynasty. We don’t have any information yet on how this variant civ, will work but I am sure it’ll make sense just like Jeanne civ does.

The same could be said about Ayyubids now. We just need more context here as well.

My point is we can separate not liking the names but also agree now that they are more historical accurate than before, so I think this shows that they do listen and they do care about our feedback but you don’t always get exactly everything that you want. Sometimes we get some of the things we wanted and vice versa.

Anyway this is just my opinion, I know you will disagree with me and that’s okay.

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The reality is that there will never be situation where everybody is happy. Entire concept is fictional the moment they put individual and claim them to be “civilizations” or when they made “variant civilization”

What will continue to happen. Some will be happier with this change and some keep malding because they wanted name x and not name y.


You completely ignored my point. Why even try to hold a discussion?

No, that is completely reductionist and absurd.

This is a 20 year old franchise with an extremely vocal fanbase. There is an understanding of what people enjoy about these games, and it isn’t some closely held secret nor is it a mystery. This decision of the developers going out of their way to break away from tradition is not “trying to keep everyone happy”.

“Trying to keep everyone happy” is not difficult in this space. It only becomes difficult when that isn’t something you are even thinking about or trying to achieve, which is exactly what happens when your co-worker Jim suddenly gets the bright idea of adding a WC3 hero as a civilization into the game.

Yes, what is next? Let’s see an English civilization variant whose hero lets you collect gear and items like an MMO. That is totally an attempt at trying to keep everyone happy, right?


No I did not and besides they have answered your question in the recent update from today how they think and why they do things they do. It makes sense.

You have just decided to hate on everything they make it seems.

Yes it is.

Because first we have the ppl who didn’t like the names, because they were not historically accurate.

Now you have ppl who are not fine with names with because they present a person.

Then we enter the area where term " variant civilization" is not a real thing. So there were some ppl malding that “order of dragon” is organization / order and not civilization.

If they wanted to be accurate with history and please ppl in general sense that its not outside of history / reality, they would’ve to change entire term “variant civilization” to something that presents organization / leader so they could use organizations or known historical figures.

So even after all of this there would be ppl who are unhappy with the stuff thats being introduced, because they feel x or y doesn’t fit their own narrative.

Devs listened and made game more historically accurate which was achieved


It seems the both of you, are quite literally impossible to have a discussion with.

And you are not? lol you should look yourself in the mirror because you are impossible to have a conversation with, it’s only what you say and our opinion never matters it seems. One-sided discussion.

I’ve seen you do this to more people than just me. Pretty much anyone who has a different opinion than you.


At least much better than Empire of Jade honestly. Without sufficient information about this variant civilisation, we dont know whether its main theme is about the Southern Song dynasty. In fact the Neo-Confucianism pioneered by Zhu Xi really had greater impact during the Ming Dynasty ranther than Song.

I believe this new civ is not confined to a particular period of history or a particular organisation , but reflects the Confucian philosophy that the Chinese have maintained. What we will see could be a Chinese variant that focuses more on their civil system and religious system.

For now I’m neutral on the new name and waiting for more information related.

I think it was in trailer or somewhere in screenshot where the weapons were made out of jade at least the spears were. So the theme was around jade and the dlc is getting released in few weeks there won’t be time to do dramatic changes to this

that is just a fan-made picture released on Reddit. We know nothing about Chinese variant through official trailer.