Mule Carts cost -25% → Fishing Ships are produced 25% faster.
Mule Cart technologies are 40% more effective. → Lumber Camp and Mining Camp technologies are 40% more effective.
Galley-line and Dromons fire one additional projectile each […]. → Galley-line and Dromons fire one additional projectile each […] from the Castle Age.
Long Swordsman and above, and Spearman line available one Age earlier. → Attack of siege weapons units against buildings: +20%.
Team bonus
Infantry have +2 Line of Sight. → Docks provide +5 population space.
Technology tree
Add Paladin.
Add Shipwright.
Add Plate Barding Armour.
Add Mining Camp.
Add Lumber Camp.
Celts
Civilization bonuses
Siege weapons fire 25% faster. → Siege weapons fire 20% faster.
Dravidians
Civilization bonuses
Barracks technologies cost -50%. → Barracks technologies cost -50%. Long Swordsman and above, and Spearman line available one Age earlier.
Team bonus
Docks provide +5 population space → Infantry have +2 Line of Sight.
Georgians
Unique units
Add Warrior Priest.
Civilization bonuses
Start with a Mule Cart. → Start with a Mule Cart, but with -50 wood.
Technology tree
Remove Sanctity.
Remove Plate Mail Armor.
Khmer
Unique unit
(Elite) Ballista Elephant attack 10(11) → 9(10)
Edit1. Some adjustments to the Armenians
Edit2. Some adjustments to the Georgians
Taking away 50 of the starting wood is a huge nerf in reality, which practically takes away the advantage the Georgians have in Arabia against virtually any civilisation.
Nerfing even the medium game seems too much in the same patch, It would also make the Giorgians unplayable in the Arena for example.
Their archery is already not great, if you remove the crossbowmen you should at least give them thumbring, and you would practically have a copy of the Bulgarians + HC.
Fishing ship 25% faster production is a significantly inferior bonus compared to -25% on mule carts for water maps. And why would you word it as Lumber and mining camp when they don’t get those buildings. Also there’s absolutely no need to nerf that. Its 40% more effect on that upgrade, just 6.7% faster than other civs for double bit axe and likewise.
Its a naval civ and makes no sense to nerf all the major water bonuses. 10% siege benefit is also too little and a strictly inferior version of celt bonus.
Even though personally I’d prefer your idea of changing them from an infantry and naval civ to a cavalry civ, I don’t think a complete redesign will happen. Plus with your version of nerfed bonuses, I don’t think its ever feasible to get to Paladin with this civ. It will be niche like Byzantine paladin.
I think civ needs either thumb ring plus siege engineers or higher rof on elite composites with bombard canons. If at all water needs a change, the additional projectile should be from castle age. Shouldn’t completely rework as a different civ, tech tree isn’t as abysmal as a few other civs.
Neat change, partially solves the cavalry raid problem in late castle age.
LOS on infantry is a very weak bonus and I wouldn’t nerf Dravidians in any way. Plus no reason to swap with Armenians. Mule cart being cheaper fits Armenia better.
Definitely not a good idea to add more options for Georgians. This will enhance their chance of having more relics.
Again another unnecessary change. Too expensive and slowly produced. Monks are good for castle age. Extremely difficult to get Elite ballistas with siege engineers, blacksmith techs, UT and chemistry. Its a Black forest boom unit where siege onagers, houfnice are common.
Judging from your first post, I see that you did not read everything before commenting. A classic. So allow me to restructure your ideas in a more cohesive manner.
As was pointed out by an Armenian, mule carts are not a regional thing. They are only part of Georgia, and by the way, only the most mousy part. Therefore, to say that mule carts are correctly associated with Armenians is like saying that they would also fit the Italians or the Spanish or any European or Asian country that used them in hilly areas. And I totally agree. In fact, it was the Romans who spread them throughout Europe.
So the solution is: let’s make Warrior Prist a regional thing. and take the mule away from the Armenians.
I remember it was 25% at the beginning. But if 40% is OK, it’s all the same to me.
I repeat, it can also be 20%, it is the idea that counts.
I did not think of this at the time of writing, but the extra arrow could be added to the Cilician Fleet technology. Not least because they should also remain a water civilisation. I think I will correct the original post.
Dravidians are already the top pic on maps like Migration for the extra 200 wood. It would only slow them down marginally. It would also help the Armenians to use the fishing ship bonus I had in mind, while the increased LOS would help the Dravidians play better with infantry.
Beyond what was written above, I don’t think the hunt for relics is necessarily better than that of the Poles or Turks in, for example.
Looks mostly aesthetic fixes (Armenians just turn into another generic cav civ in Arabia I feel) and small number fixes, feels kinda boring in terms of gameplay changes
I did read everything in this post if thats what you mean.
Addressing historical inaccuracies apart, the mule cart changes are unnecessary balancewise. You could have simply put it as “Historical inaccuracy fixes I would like to see in the next patch” instead of balancing patch. And still removing mule cart is a significant nerf for the dark age and should come along with a proper compensation.
Yes 25% was weak, so they got buffed.
In my opinion it shouldn’t be a part of UT. Civ gets some eco benefits but far from Vikings, Italians, Dravidians. Can’t have generic ships until imp with mediocre economy.
TTL3 version of Migration and Water Nomad are almost the tailor made maps for Dravidians. You dont get much hunt and after a couple of mins nearest available deep fish is quite far from the dock. Most of the game till mid castle age is water based with little scope for land mobility or pushing the base with land units. When it comes to other water maps like Team Islands, Northern Isles/crossing, Atoll, Pacific Islands etc, civs like Armenians, Koreans, Vikings, Italians would do better imo.
Even if lets assume Dravidians the undisputed best water civ (its actually not), ideal way to nerf is to make barracks and siege workshop cheaper and change the bonus per age to 100 wood and 50 stone or 150 wood and 50 stone or something like that. The Dock bonus is crucial to get fishing ships sooner and important to go up faster. Opposite argument of Armenians, generic navy implies better eco benefits for water builds. And no the dock pop space thing is not marginal. If you build a house and then go for the dock, its like 40-50 seconds (wood + build time) delayed dock and 1 less fishing ship throughout dark age.
Its easier to pick relics with warrior priests against many other civs. Its also a great option to mix them in battles with Monaspa for healing and distracting pikes/camels which is particularly very powerful against meso or Indian civs. Even otherwise its a decent extra option for a civ that’s already quite versatile.
Currently it is the Armenians, and it is also not funny as well.
Not this one, but really, I’d rather face demo rafts with +20% blast radius than yet again galleys with +1 attack in feudal age. (I’m in the 1800-1900 Elo range). That bonus is so strong that it allows you to micromanage Fire Galley incredibly easily, and puts you in an advantageous position in all Galley wars.
You can tell me that the Romans also have strong economies and stronger galleys, but they don’t have the Demolition line to compensate. In this sense, the Armenians are an exception.
I prefer to reverse the UU ‘Cecilian Fleet’ with the civility bonus, it should be much less annoying.
You could remove sanctity for example, and also why do they have Plate Mail Armor? Another thing that is perhaps excessive.
I agree its powerful in feudal, but it should start for free in castle age or with war galley upgrade or careening.
Yes demos are needed to counter fireships in larger numbers and that Roman bonus somewhat compensates for the lack of demos. But eventually in imp they don’t get bracer. They are forced to shift action to land before imp and have a window. Strong eco and powerful military early on but doesn’t scale eventually apart from the missing unit line.
thats too powerful in small pond fights. Especially demos can take out repair vills even if you move them a little away from the shore.
I believe to do well vs camels + archer combos. That nerf can come in as such without giving them warrior priest too. You can give them warrior priest without sanctity if somehow rest of the civ gets balanced. Like lower work rate benefit, lower hp regeneration by default.