I do not agree with all the things Beasty said, especially about user generated content or Campaign being a tutorial for MP (try to find a case where that is true).
The games are being launched too early. It’s more or less that resulting in too little worthwhile content. I’ve worked in commercial steel buildings my whole life, it’s the same story these days. The demand is too high and nobody knows why it takes so long, so they often get subpar service for rushing crews.
But AoE4 does not get that excuse because I do know that it does not take 6 months to give players color pick, or to do many other things; I could pick color in 1980s games or add color pick in code from a tutorial book.
I nearly typed out an example before I remembered who you are.
It is to be adhered to, that Devs have done everything correctly thus far, by—and will, into the foreseeable future, (be) working toward the improvement of their game, and the well-being of their community. We know nothing about what goes on at Relic and ought not droop our face in calling to mind our personal experience before considering the aforementioned.
As to the Beasty video, he stands on a mountain of experience and pours from the wellspring of that knowledge an opinion becoming of a community leader that should, doubtless, dissuade less informed community members, like myself, from turning from the straight path to seek after false guides, like GGG, that would cause us to adhere to unsubstantia’ble opinions held in contrast to the present economic reality weighing so heavily on game developers.
I stand corrected. I am sorry for my words. I want to be of the right party. I will keep trying to learn the correct things.
No no no, you gave me examples already. I was asking you to explain them, not drop a comment about “who I am” before starting the rest of your post.
Share your expertise - I want to understand, because i personally can’t see how it relates. I’m not hiding anything, I’m not looking a gotcha. I’m not interested in all that.
The council affirmatively did not consist of only pro players. However, the council did not decide anything. The developers did. Exactly what they decided and who they listened to are different questions. Nobody but the devs themselves read all of the feedback, so nobody here is going to have very much insight in this area.
Thanks for the insight. The whole council thing was rather ambiguous to me as far as who was chosen and what the purpose of it was. So basically they were glorified beta testers.
Beasty’s point about multiplayer being the end goal for RTS may or may not be correct depending on whether you make a living / derive meaning from being better at a game than somebody else. I personally care much more about single player, tune in after every DLC in AOE2 & TW, and I believe I am in the vast majority of AOE/WC3/TW players who have other adult obligations. I don’t have time to spend getting better at moving 8 villagers from food to wood 16 times a day.
With regard to the GGG video at the top, while I do appreciate the S for Sandbox idea, I think it’s only partly relevant for AOE. The whole RTS as sandbox is exactly what I do not need from AOE games.
What will help Major RTS to succeed is when the strategy is decisive within a well-crafted and weighty narrative - eg. history, fantasy. AOE4 needs to recapture this, not by showing documentaries paired with lifeless playalongs, but having the player invested in their decisions in a way that is bigger than just beating the scenario. Especially not by giving us an infinitely replayable sandbox experience rich in caffeine and devoid of meaning.
Separately - I feel a small minority defending the game has driven much of the useful big picture critique out of the forums.
Part of the language of this dismissal is often couched in pretense of being more open minded than others and avoids actually engaging with the critiques which might be simple and straightforward eg. ‘we want more polished single player and graphics…’ - ‘nobody plays single player anymore’ … But why isn’t it polished, have we ever gotten an answer for this? Also inherent in some posts is the idea that opinions have to be ‘objective’ or ‘quantitative’ to have credibility, when in fact the whole point of having a forum is to engage with subjective opinions in good faith.
It just makes it even harder to remain positive about this game, which I want really badly to succeed.
I sincerely believe that the council is one of their best ideas. AoE is 25-years-old, and its fans are lifers. To this core fandom, every developer is a franchise outsider. None of them have any experience whatsoever developing any of our other games, save for the definitive editions. Because of this, those outsiders set out on the path with a major legitimacy problem - they were parachuting into our world as our overlords. That’s a recipe for revolt, and anything they could to to involve us and ingratiate themselves and show they care goes a long way.
Now ultimately, I find their first effort largely out of whack and misguided, but it sure as heck was not because of the council. It may have been despite it, though.
I still respect the hell out of them for trying though.
I guess that only matters if they actually took heed of what suggestions/critiques people made, doesn’t it? and from reports from the open beta people seemed quite frustrated with Relic for not listening. Now obviously we have no idea what has gone on internally but from the outside looking in, I can’t help but feel dubious about their initial vision for the game and the snail’s pace at which basic features that every AoE game to date has had from launch such a color picker and random civ selection. I can’t imagine those weren’t brought up at some point before the game’s release.
Now maybe it was an issue of Microsoft sticking to a release date deadline and refusing to delay it. Who knows.
On a personal level, my faith is all but sapped not only for AoEIV but for the future of the franchise. By that, I mean name brand recognition will not be enough for me. Maybe that’s a dramatic approach. That being said I believe AoEIV has its place in the franchise much like every other non AoEII iteration. I just happen to think AoEIV is a major step down from previous titles while also recognizing my own hypocrisy being a fan of AoEIII and having to defend its place in this franchise for 17 years. AoEIV fans will have to do the same.
Supposing AOE4 could be the last adventure of Relic on this franchise (only speculations) which studios you would see to develop the next itineration? Forgotten, Creative Assembly, Blizzard, Grimlore (spellfroce3)?
Yes, I think exactly the same… that they had a hard time doing something like Rise of Nations, and that it is a game set between 1914 and 1991 (with expansions towards the secession war in 1860 and into the future with the disappearance of oil in 2035 and the colonization of Mars from 2031)
Yes, I think exactly the same… aoe 2 players don’t know how to adapt to the most modern changes in the series… I am a player of aoe 3, and although I am not a fan of the most modern games of the saga, I could adapt to them and I have known how to appreciate them in their respective way…
What good is a game that seems fun to a minority of players like us? I love AoE3, but it’s not popular, nor is it competitive. I know the forum is overrepresented by AoE3 players and other less played AoE games.
An RTS must have a good competitive environment and favor a good SP and Mod creation mode.
